Instagram     

Go Back   PNW Moto > Washington > Seattle > Vancouver

Vancouver Rides, meetups, regional discussions | Vancouver, Washington

Like Tree34Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Jun 30th 2017, 03:10 PM   #46
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Yesterday I hit I-84 WB near Gresham at 4:00pm. As always, there's already a 2-mile standstill ahead of the 3-way fork for 205 N, 205 S and 84 WB continuing. And as always, the entire blockage of all three lanes is really just for the 205 fork north to Vancouver, and everyone else has to pay the price.

Me, I just want to continue on 84 and y'know what? There's that nice, wide shoulder. Fuck it, no cop in the world is going to want to jam things up further by trying to ticket me. So I eased on down it at no more than 10mph -- about the speed of a bicycle rider taking it easy. Nobody even gave me a second glance. Sure enough, 200 yards from the fork it opens up and the only backed up lane is for the 205 N ramp, cars in the other (now three) lanes are getting in gear and breezing away, as am I.

I estimate it would have taken me a minimum of 30 minutes to cover those two miles, on a hot sunny afternoon and no water cooling for my engine, for no useful purpose, just adding to the congestion of a route I won't even be taking. Like I said, fuck it.

Seriously, I'd like to petition for a sign on that road and similar predictably choked roads: "Motorcycles may use shoulder, 10mph max". Note not 10+, 10-period. Hard to see how anyone could reasonably object as at that speed you're not going to have problems when you encounter any breakdown usage of the lane, and at that speed limit no one would do it at all except during a complete stoppage.
Flyboymedic and SilvieFox like this.

Edited by WarpShatner7 on Jun 30th 2017 at 05:59 PM
Jun 30th 2017, 05:21 PM   #47
 
  Apr 2016
  Vancouver

  2015 Yamaha Fj-09
Traffic at a standstill yesterday heading I5 north from Lloyd center. Decide to use the shoulder. I pass NINE people who are single occupants in the car pool lane and all nine are using their cellphone. The quick look up, down, up, down, rinse repeat until they back end another vehicle. I refuse to ride behind these people. I refuse to ride 3-4 cars in front of these people. Fuck them. I ride the shoulder or lane split.

And for the record I have seen a single cop taking down people using their cell phone or riding single in the carpool ALL YEAR LONG. So FUCK the rules.
Jun 30th 2017, 06:03 PM   #48
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSzup
And for the record I have seen a single cop taking down people using their cell phone or riding single in the carpool ALL YEAR LONG. So FUCK the rules.
Get yourself a sticky pad. Write "HOV LANE" followed by your choice of obscene insult on the underside (with the sticky edge) of a few dozen pages. Stick the pad somewhere out of the wind blast on your bike in front of you. As you roll by these guys, peel one off and slap it on the door window of each car. If you have a throttle lock, even better: you can slap it on the driver side window from the left hand shoulder.
SilvieFox likes this.
Jul 1st 2017, 07:12 AM   #49
 Naza's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Rent'n

  2002 Honda RC51, 2005 Honda RC51
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpShatner7
Get yourself a sticky pad. Write "HOV LANE" followed by your choice of obscene insult on the underside (with the sticky edge) of a few dozen pages. Stick the pad somewhere out of the wind blast on your bike in front of you. As you roll by these guys, peel one off and slap it on the door window of each car. If you have a throttle lock, even better: you can slap it on the driver side window from the left hand shoulder.
hehehe...good one
Jul 1st 2017, 12:48 PM   #50
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Here is an example of what I have been talking about:

Motorcyclist killed in crash while trying to pass car in bike lane | KOMO

Chances are this rider held the same opinions about lane splitting as many others on this thread. Unfortunately his choice to break the law cost him his life, and thanks to KOMO4 has given ammunition to those who want to keep lane splitting from becoming legal.

Sure, you may say that's not the type of "lane splitting" we are talking about, but as far as the public is concerned, and especially the ones reading this article, it is no different.
Texasl likes this.
Jul 2nd 2017, 05:00 PM   #51
 Willow's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Silverdale, WA

  848evo, DRZ400SM, XR100
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Unfortunately that's not how traffic laws usually work. Just look at cell phone laws. People are still breaking that law, but instead of making it legal again, they are making the laws stricter and penalties more intense. The same happens if too much speeding occurs on a certain street in the city. Instead of saying "wow, a lot of people are ignoring this law, let's raise the speed limit", they do the exact opposite by either increasing enforcement, lowering the speed limit, or both.

The problem is that motorcyclists have to stop looking at this like motorcyclists, and start looking at it the way most car drivers do. And to do that you need to spend some time listening to them, or better yet, read the comments section whenever a news source talks about it.
Sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.
You can't use cell phone usage as an example. Too many studies and research shows it is too dangerous. So of course not, they wouldn't legalize cell phones.
The study on lane splitting from UC Berkeley, is the most prevalent one today, and shows it is not dangerous, but actually safe.

Using a traffic law and speeding as an example:

Our great president Richard Nixon passed a law for 55 mph, did people follow that law. Yes, a lot of people did because they didn't want tickets and they believed what they were told....."It is much safer." But a WHOLE LOT of people didn't follow the 55 speed limit.

A quote from USNews:
Quote:
Motorist compliance with the 55 mph limit was always problematical and became more so as time progressed. Ticketing binges, threatened financial sanctions, relentless PR, and increased fines and penalties failed to stem noncompliance. Despite increasing noncompliance and increased highway speeds, fatality rates continued to decline, contradicting the folklore that higher speed limits and higher speeds result in more serious accidents.
From same article in USNews:
Quote:
In 1982, congressional proponents of the 55 mph speed limit, frustrated with their inability to bludgeon the populace into compliance with it, passed legislation commissioning the National Academy of Science to do a "study of the benefits of the 55 mph National Speed Limit." Although the intent was to bolster political and public support for the law, the outcome was to be just the opposite.
Yes, people began to ignore the 55 mph speed limit, because it was ludicrous, so more and more people "broke the law" and speed anyway.

Finally 1995 still believing higher speed kills.....quote from LA Times:
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Amid concern for the safety of the nation's motorists, a reluctant President Clinton on Tuesday signed a GOP-backed initiative to eliminate federal speed limits to avoid holding up $6.5 billion in transportation funds.

Individual states will be able to set their own speed limits when the bill takes effect 10 days from now. California motorists can expect limits of 65 m.p.h. and 70 m.p.h. on thousands of miles of freeways starting in January, state officials said.

Safety advocates complained loudly, charging that Clinton was signing a death warrant for American motorists.
See...."Safety advocates complained loudly."

Further in that article:
Quote:
"President Clinton is about to join the Congress in supporting legislation that his own Department of Transportation says will kill and injure tens of thousands more Americans on the highways every year and cost the nation more than $19 billion a year," consumer advocate Ralph Nader said in a statement released Tuesday before Clinton signed the measure into law.

But the law produced a welcome side-effect: 9,000 fewer highway fatalities were reported the following year.
As much as a number of people tried to make everyone believe it was unsafe, people speed anyway. It didn't give the "good drivers" a bad name, it just got what most of the people wanted......FASTER SPEED LIMIT, and the statistics proved it and that it did not cause more highway deaths. In fact there was a period of time Montana did away with the speed limit all together.

It was the masses that kept speeding, and the statistics proved it didn't cause more deaths, but actually declined the following year that Bill Clinton signed the law to increase speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Here's another aspect that some may not take into account with this particular thread. Mass transit is the pet project of the majority of our Democratic government officials. They want more people to use it and will do whatever it takes to make it look more appealing. On the other hand, motorcycles are a symbol of personal freedom and are kinda a middle finger to mass transit, therefore they become the "enemy" to the "feel good", social conscience driven government officials. So, any time a motorcyclist makes the news by being stupid, or killing themselves on the highway, those officials have yet another bullet to use to kill laws benefiting bikers.
Yes, I could agree with you here, our government officials want mass transit so bad, they will do what they have to do to get their way, and that maybe the drive to keep lane splitting out of the books.

Happy trails........oh I mean happy riding. Now I need to go out for a ride..
albatrosscafe likes this.
Jul 2nd 2017, 06:11 PM   #52
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Actually, the federally mandated 55 law that was dumped on us in 1974 was in response to the oil crisis in 1973. Some of us are old enough to remember those days (license plates ending in even numbers can gas up on even numbered days, etc). The whole safety argument was an add on rationalization and the subsequent reduction in crash fatalities may have been more a result of better safety features gradually replacing older technologies. By the way, most of those upgrades were also federally mandated.

Lane splitting is a viable solution to a problem unique to motorcycles. As with the speed law, an additional benefit is there for the motorist too in providing (somewhat) less congestion.

I would side with those on this thread that say riders should make every effort to obey the current laws and understand the other point of view. "Resist" is a counterproductive strategy in figuring out how to get things done...on any scale. Making logical arguments is more difficult when someone splits at high speed, passes on the right, or otherwise does something that makes the evening news and gives us a bad name.
Jul 3rd 2017, 06:55 AM   #53
 Naza's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Rent'n

  2002 Honda RC51, 2005 Honda RC51
I think if you were to go over to the "Clay pigeon shooting club" forum they are having the same discussion on why they can no longer shoot at their favorite spots or noise ordinances or whatever. I am sure over at the "cross-stitch knitters of America" forum they are probably complaining on how the "man" is keeping them down.

Everyone is pissed about something they like to do that is unlawful, but they do it anyway. (just like what will happen tomorrow)

"We" on this forum keep saying that the stories like the KOMO one above will deter "lane splitting" because the public will think it is unsafe. I think if we all had a slip of paper and a clipboard and polled citizens at QFC's, Safeways, Fred Meyers,etc and ask "What do you know of lane splitting? And are you for it?" I bet a large percentage will say "What's that?" or "Don't care"

I have been saying on these types of posts that it is the "Wild West" when it comes to traffic laws around here and that divers are entitled to get to their destination by any means possible.

So here is a classic example.

In my 'hood, Kennydale...on Exit 6 405 on ramp, the city took away the HOV bypass lane and put in a second Red-light / Green-light wait-go lane. They cut away the hill next to the bus stop and put in a BUS ONLY bypass lane and is clearly marked as so with paint and signage.

Guess, what......Drivers are blowing through in that lane anyway. Yes, most are high occupancy. My wife says she see lots of posts on FB (I do not have a FB account) of our neighbors and friends complaining about having "their" HOV lane taken away.

So, in this case...these are drivers that do not want to wait in line and are breaking a traffic revision. Not drivers that are trying to stay cool in hot weather or trying to avoid being rear ended in stop-n-go traffic, etc, etc.
Willow and albatrosscafe like this.
Jul 3rd 2017, 09:00 AM   #54
 BabyJordan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2017
  Renton, Wa

  GSXR 1000
I was on a ride a few weeks ago, going up to Paradise. There was a 6 mile back up, 4 of us decided to just go on the right shoulder and pass at a slow speed....

I would say 50% of the cars moved to the left to give us more room and the other 50% assholes moves to the right to block us because they probably were jealous...IDIOT WA DRIVERS
Jul 3rd 2017, 10:16 AM   #55
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyJordan
I was on a ride a few weeks ago, going up to Paradise. There was a 6 mile back up, 4 of us decided to just go on the right shoulder and pass at a slow speed....

I would say 50% of the cars moved to the left to give us more room and the other 50% assholes moves to the right to block us because they probably were jealous...IDIOT WA DRIVERS
Yep, and that 50% that were assholes will be the ones yelling in the ears of the legislators next time "lane splitting" comes up. And that 50% that let you by, they will be very quiet because they have no interest in it.

Now, let's just extrapolate that out at bit. There are over 6 million licensed drivers in WA. If 50% of those drivers are "assholes" and dislike lane splitting, that means that 3 million drivers would potentially vehemently appose it. There are just over 400,000 licensed motorcyclists. And, those motorcyclists are also part of that other 3 million licensed drivers. That puts motorcyclists on the uphill climb trying to convince not only 3 million angry drivers to go along with it, but also another 2.5 million drivers who have no vested interest one way or the other. So, when legislators are mulling over the idea, who do you think has a louder voice?
Texasl and Chrishil54 like this.
Jul 4th 2017, 10:16 AM   #56
 Willow's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Silverdale, WA

  848evo, DRZ400SM, XR100
The talk about "all" the legislators having one more thing to kill lane splitting or we have to convince "all" the legislators on lane splitting is a bit far fetched IMHO.
The only person in the "all" that we have to convince, or be rid of, is Judy Clibborn. She is pretty much the only barrier right now for lane splitting.

Have you contacted your local representatives to support lane splitting? If you have, what kind of response did you get? I did, and I got very good support for lane splitting, even with all those guys out there lane splitting, and giving all the other riders a bad name, (which I don't believe is quite the case).

BTW....Happy 4th of July to all. What a great country to live.

Edited by Willow on Jul 4th 2017 at 10:35 AM
Jul 4th 2017, 04:44 PM   #57
 
  Apr 2016
  Vancouver

  2015 Yamaha Fj-09
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Unfortunately that's not how traffic laws usually work. Just look at cell phone laws. People are still breaking that law, but instead of making it legal again, they are making the laws stricter and penalties more intense. The same happens if too much speeding occurs on a certain street in the city. Instead of saying "wow, a lot of people are ignoring this law, let's raise the speed limit", they do the exact opposite by either increasing enforcement, lowering the speed limit, or both.

The problem is that motorcyclists have to stop looking at this like motorcyclists, and start looking at it the way most car drivers do. And to do that you need to spend some time listening to them, or better yet, read the comments section whenever a news source talks about it.

Here's another aspect that some may not take into account with this particular thread. Mass transit is the pet project of the majority of our Democratic government officials. They want more people to use it and will do whatever it takes to make it look more appealing. On the other hand, motorcycles are a symbol of personal freedom and are kinda a middle finger to mass transit, therefore they become the "enemy" to the "feel good", social conscience driven government officials. So, any time a motorcyclist makes the news by being stupid, or killing themselves on the highway, those officials have yet another bullet to use to kill laws benefiting bikers.
A $125 ticket is NOT "more intense". Shit, setting off fireworks on July 3rd nets you a $500 ticket (if you get caught). Seriously fucked up values here.
Jul 4th 2017, 04:45 PM   #58
 
  Apr 2016
  Vancouver

  2015 Yamaha Fj-09
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpShatner7
Get yourself a sticky pad. Write "HOV LANE" followed by your choice of obscene insult on the underside (with the sticky edge) of a few dozen pages. Stick the pad somewhere out of the wind blast on your bike in front of you. As you roll by these guys, peel one off and slap it on the door window of each car. If you have a throttle lock, even better: you can slap it on the driver side window from the left hand shoulder.
I FUCKING LOVE THIS IDEA! I am so doing this next week.
Jul 5th 2017, 04:34 PM   #59
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  2009 V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooden
While I see your point in general, I don't believe for one second that the average Joe is going to believe you when you tell them lane splitting is safe unless they've seen someone do it safely. If it's illegal and no one does it, then they'll never see someone do it safely, and they'll never believe it's safe.

That's how I look at it, at least.
Lane splitting is not "safe".
Riding Motorcycles is not "safe".
Riding bicycles is not "safe".
Crossing the street in downtown Seattle is not "safe".
Heck, taking a shower is not "safe".

Each and every year people do these things and die from accidents while doing them. What we need to do is demonstrate how "safe" is relative and that while there will be accidents, accidents will go down. Take a look at the numbers from California and show people where motorcycle accidents went down once lane splitting started.
Reply

  PNW Moto > Washington > Seattle > Vancouver

Tags
bunch, twats



Thread Tools
Display Modes





Copyright © 2018 PNW Moto. All rights reserved.