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Feb 24th 2019, 06:39 AM   #46
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54

- Good that you contact them but you hurt yourself and all of your fellow riders by telling them to ignore another group of riders. It makes it easier to dismiss you and the other group's points. Trying to screw over other rider groups is also a pretty crappy thing to do.
This is absolutely true. While someone may not agree with one of ABATE's flagship issues, the organization is active on other issues, such as, Yahweh forbid, lane sharing/splitting, parking equity, and safeguarding the motorcycle safety program from the agency weasels who have real idea why fatalities and serious crashes do not decline but feel like "someone has to do something."

I'll not go down the rabbit hole of debating the necessity or social morality of helmet laws, but by publicly damning a riding group because of their stance on one single issue you diminish the overall voice of riders as a whole.
Thumperpilot likes this.
Feb 24th 2019, 09:35 AM   #47
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl
This is absolutely true. While someone may not agree with one of ABATE's flagship issues, the organization is active on other issues, such as, Yahweh forbid, lane sharing/splitting, parking equity, and safeguarding the motorcycle safety program from the agency weasels who have real idea why fatalities and serious crashes do not decline but feel like "someone has to do something."

I'll not go down the rabbit hole of debating the necessity or social morality of helmet laws, but by publicly damning a riding group because of their stance on one single issue you diminish the overall voice of riders as a whole.
Well said!
Feb 24th 2019, 09:48 AM   #48
 tod701's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stanwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpShatner7
Indeed, what comes up in a google search may not be the results for the current legislative session. Here's what you want:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?B...1125&Year=2019.

What I linked above is the Senate version (presumably identical at this point).
The link is to the House version HB1125.

This link takes you to the Senate version SB5007

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?B...nate&Year=2019

They are both identical.
Feb 24th 2019, 10:40 AM   #49
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by tod701
The link is to the House version HB1125.

This link takes you to the Senate version SB5007

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?B...nate&Year=2019

They are both identical.
When I said "above" I referred to my previous post two comments up.
Feb 24th 2019, 06:38 PM   #50
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
The issue isn't Eyman and other's "anti-tax bullshit" but how the tax money is wasted. Your vehicle related taxes are spent on things like road repair and construction, bike and walking paths along with rail, bus systems and ferry subsidies plus a specific percent must be spent on art. Why not just the road repair and construction?
Now if you really feel that you should pay more in taxes, send a check to the department of revenue for the difference. I'm pretty sure they would love to have your extra money to add to their funds.

I've asked for these and more from my legislators, more than once. I've also asked my legislators to ignore the idiots from Abate, try to show that Abate's short sighted and petty goals do not represent the majority of riders.

- Good that you contact them but you hurt yourself and all of your fellow riders by telling them to ignore another group of riders. It makes it easier to dismiss you and the other group's points. Trying to screw over other rider groups is also a pretty crappy thing to do.
Do you have any scientific evidence for this waste? Or is it just your opinion?

You question my assertion about graduated endorsements, ask for 'evidence?' Then say that we had better riders when we had graduated endorsements? Hmmm. Of course we had better riders, for a few obvious reasons, including the reason you state: A more rigorous testing program. That's generally what's included with adding qualification/hurdles for getting licensed.

No, I don't hurt anybody by urging legislators, or anyone, to ignore a group of idiots who are both too stupid to understand how stupid are their goals and arrogant enough to think they speak for anybody but a small minority of riders.
Urging riders to go helmet-less: I think it's fair to say this harms more riders than me urging our lawmakers (and others) to ignore/not-codify such blatantly bad advice.

I've been riding a long time, been talking to riders of all types, people in the MC business for a long time. I know the opinions I've shard here ARE shared by the majority of riders. Maybe not you.
Perhaps I'm overstating here, but your apparent defense of the fools at Abate, along with your near-exact quote of a portion of Eyman's platform . . . I'm not sure you're able to see the forest for the trees.

You, as he, appear to think that paved roads are the only viable means for which our transportation tax dollars are spent. I love that our road-tax dollars are spent on trains, buses, trails, etc I use all of these, I commute on my bicycle, I use the ferry to get to one of my favorite moto rides on the peninsula, I use the train to get to the airport, my family commutes everyday via the bus, and on and on.
I have a wide-enough field of view to understand these other transportation features reduce paved lane travel, allow me just a bit more space and safety and fun when I choose to use those lanes.

To others here defending abate: Please read the history of their efforts. Despite quite-recent attempts to gain credibility by appearing to broaden their legislative goals . . . the over-arching reason for their existance, their constant and PRIMARY goal has been and continues to be repeal of mandatory helmet laws.
ABATE: A brotherhood against totalitarian enactments. Yes, that's right. They think helmet laws, open pipe laws, (and probably speed limits and blood-alcohol-while-driving/riding limits) are totalitarian. Sounds like an inert teenager bitching about "the man" when told by his mom to turn down the volume on his bedroom's stereo.
Abate's PRIMARY reason for existence is a lie. Adding apparent 'truths' to their lie, adding weak quests for more broadly-supported issues (such as parking and obscure weight fees) to their agenda . . . does not render their primary bullshit as credible. Reminds me of the ENAREAY.

Edited by FireDave on Feb 24th 2019 at 06:55 PM
Feb 25th 2019, 12:08 AM   #51
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
To others here defending abate: Please read the history of their efforts. Despite quite-recent attempts to gain credibility by appearing to broaden their legislative goals . . . the over-arching reason for their existance, their constant and PRIMARY goal has been and continues to be repeal of mandatory helmet laws.
ABATE: A brotherhood against totalitarian enactments. Yes, that's right. They think helmet laws, open pipe laws, (and probably speed limits and blood-alcohol-while-driving/riding limits) are totalitarian. Sounds like an inert teenager bitching about "the man" when told by his mom to turn down the volume on his bedroom's stereo.
Abate's PRIMARY reason for existence is a lie. Adding apparent 'truths' to their lie, adding weak quests for more broadly-supported issues (such as parking and obscure weight fees) to their agenda . . . does not render their primary bullshit as credible. Reminds me of the ENAREAY.
How narrow minded and ill informed some folks can be....
Feb 25th 2019, 12:25 AM   #52
 Thumperpilot's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Rome

  SV650S, CRF450R, and others
I, for one, am not for requiring insurance. I have collector bikes that are seldom ridden and it would be a burden to have to carry insurance on them...

Frankly, what we really need is insurance reform. It's a screwed-up racket right now! Every licensed driver should be personally insured so you're covered for whatever you drive or ride...

And, uninsured drivers should lose their license and vehicle. This uninsured driving and getting away with harming others either bodily or monetarily is total BS.
Feb 25th 2019, 07:52 AM   #53
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperpilot
Frankly, what we really need is insurance reform. It's a screwed-up racket right now! Every licensed driver should be personally insured so you're covered for whatever you drive or ride...
Yep. On the one hand I get a (small) low-mileage discount on my cars because, between public transportation, bicycling and multiple motorcycles I simply don't put many miles on them. But I still pay twice as much liability for two cars than one despite the fact that if I hit somebody it'll be me doing it, not the car.
Feb 25th 2019, 01:10 PM   #54
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  KTM SAR Husqvarna Strada, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperpilot
I, for one, am not for requiring insurance. I have collector bikes that are seldom ridden and it would be a burden to have to carry insurance on them...

Frankly, what we really need is insurance reform. It's a screwed-up racket right now! Every licensed driver should be personally insured so you're covered for whatever you drive or ride...

And, uninsured drivers should lose their license and vehicle. This uninsured driving and getting away with harming others either bodily or monetarily is total BS.
Preach it Brother!
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Feb 25th 2019, 02:37 PM   #55
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperpilot
I, for one, am not for requiring insurance. I have collector bikes that are seldom ridden and it would be a burden to have to carry insurance on them...

Frankly, what we really need is insurance reform. It's a screwed-up racket right now! Every licensed driver should be personally insured so you're covered for whatever you drive or ride...

And, uninsured drivers should lose their license and vehicle. This uninsured driving and getting away with harming others either bodily or monetarily is total BS.
As HB1014 makes its way through the process (already through the House and in Senate Transportation Committee) and we are getting closer to mandatory motorcycle insurance I did some checking with my carrier this morning. I have several (to many??) collector bikes that get low miles use per year on which I carry comprehensive to cover fire, theft, etc. Around $50 per year depending on which one. State farm says all I have to do is call up tell them I'm going to ride the bike for the day, weekend, week, whatever, - call and suspend the liability coverage when done. To easy and to inexpensive not to have it.
Feb 25th 2019, 04:40 PM   #56
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
You question my assertion about graduated endorsements, ask for 'evidence?' Then say that we had better riders when we had graduated endorsements? Hmmm.
Actually, that's not what he said. He said that rider's instruction (something that wasn't even required during the "graduated endorsement" era) has made for better riders. And as a note, rider instruction is still not a requirement in WA, you just have to pass the test, and any school will test you for a fee even if you don't take their course. The difference is that rider instruction is much more available now then it was back during the time when we had tiered licensing.

As it is now, anyone can learn how to ride around a parking lot and then jump on a bike a ride in traffic, with no real clue how to operate it in that environment. And you can get killed just as easily on a 250 Ninja as you can on a Panigale V4.

The reality in what makes better riders is veteran riders being mentors. Take an interest in younger riders and spend time with them. Share your experience.
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Feb 25th 2019, 07:12 PM   #57
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW

The reality in what makes better riders is veteran riders being mentors. Take an interest in younger riders and spend time with them. Share your experience.
Do you know how painful it is to hang out with the straight piped lowered and stretched Grom crowd?
Texasl likes this.
Feb 26th 2019, 09:28 AM   #58
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
Do you know how painful it is to hang out with the straight piped lowered and stretched Grom crowd?
I understand your frustration, this separation has been going on since the beginning of motorcycles - I've seen it for 60 years now. But, right now they are the ones that have come together to offer legislation that will benefit all of us, think lane splitting, weight fee reduction, parking - they championed the "red light bight bill". If you don't agree with all their legislative efforts, as I don't necessarily, get involved and offer your help to make things more palatable. It's all about 2 wheels and an engine. If we don't unite on this stuff we'll be legislated right off the highway....and don't think that can't happen. As for the straight pipe stuff - yeah there's a few, just like sporty bikers with obnoxiously loud exhaust noise...tide flows both ways.
Feb 26th 2019, 04:19 PM   #59
 MotoDan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Olympia

  2014 KTM 690 / BMW R1150 GS
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
There is no longer a federal health insurance mandate. That was eliminated very early in the current administration's tenure.
Another Campaign promise kept✔
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Feb 26th 2019, 07:49 PM   #60
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Actually, that's not what he said. He said that rider's instruction (something that wasn't even required during the "graduated endorsement" era) has made for better riders. And as a note, rider instruction is still not a requirement in WA, you just have to pass the test, and any school will test you for a fee even if you don't take their course. The difference is that rider instruction is much more available now then it was back during the time when we had tiered licensing.

As it is now, anyone can learn how to ride around a parking lot and then jump on a bike a ride in traffic, with no real clue how to operate it in that environment. And you can get killed just as easily on a 250 Ninja as you can on a Panigale V4.

The reality in what makes better riders is veteran riders being mentors. Take an interest in younger riders and spend time with them. Share your experience.
Well, since we're being argumentative, I did paraphrase his words accurately: He referred to past tense, the only time frame he referenced was the period of tiered licenses. Why, during that period, were riders obtaining training, the "riding courses people were taking before their endorsement?"
Answer: To be able to pass the tiered-license tests, the difficulty of such influenced by the size of the bike for which you were testing.

Our conclusions are the same. Why you're nitpicking the direction from which we reach the same conclusion, I don't know.



I agree with you about mentoring. However, in my experience, those willing to be mentored are also approaching motorcycling with a more mature, more disciplined mindset. IMO, those most needing mentoring are the least likely to seek or accept it. A catch-22, but there are certainly some new riders in the middle to be reached.
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