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Feb 19th 2019, 07:42 PM   #16
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
There is no longer a federal health insurance mandate. That was eliminated very early in the current administration's tenure.
This is not true. What was eliminated is fine for not having insurance. The mandate is still there, unenforceable but active.
Feb 19th 2019, 08:07 PM   #17
 SXVINWA's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Tri-Cities

Tax forms for 2018 still have computations for tax penalties associated with failing to have qualifying insurance coverage, don’t they? To me that would indicate it is still mandatory.

I could be wrong.
Feb 20th 2019, 08:39 AM   #18
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
This is not true. What was eliminated is fine for not having insurance. The mandate is still there, unenforceable but active.
No penalty means no mandate. A law without punishment for breaking it is not a law, but a suggestion.
Feb 20th 2019, 08:55 AM   #19
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
i note that ABATE is holding their thingy in Yakawalla and not in Seattle.

demographics discussion, anyone?
Want a legislative meeting / update in Seattle? PM me and I'll get you connected with ABATE folks on the wet side to set it up.
Feb 20th 2019, 10:18 AM   #20
 SXVINWA's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Tri-Cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
No penalty means no mandate. A law without punishment for breaking it is not a law, but a suggestion.
Wouldn’t you consider the “Shared Responsibility Payment” for line 14 “Other Taxes” that gets calculated in Shed 4 to be a penalty? Seems to me that if you don’t have insurance you still get taxed for it.
Feb 20th 2019, 10:28 AM   #21
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXVINWA
Wouldn’t you consider the “Shared Responsibility Payment” for line 14 “Other Taxes” that gets calculated in Shed 4 to be a penalty? Seems to me that if you don’t have insurance you still get taxed for it.
I would consider "we're gonna tax you anyway" quite different from "we're gonna fine you thousands of dollars if you don't have it". Why? If the tax is going to happen no matter what you do, then it's not a penalty and it's really not an incentive to have insurance. Think of it this way, say WA implemented a mileage tax, with a "mandate" to abide by the speed limit, but there was no fine for breaking the speed limit. You're gonna get taxed the same whether you drive "55" or don't. Is that tax a penalty?
Feb 20th 2019, 11:05 AM   #22
 SXVINWA's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Tri-Cities

I have been informed that the personal requirement for coverage has been removed, but is effective this year, which is why it was still on the 2018 tax forms.
Feb 20th 2019, 03:03 PM   #23
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
No penalty means no mandate. A law without punishment for breaking it is not a law, but a suggestion.
Semantics, and I disagree with your semantics.

In general, I don't care if people want to ride without helmets, but I do support higher requirements for their insurance. If *my* insurance requirements go up as a result, I will be pissed.
Feb 20th 2019, 08:48 PM   #24
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
If *my* insurance requirements go up as a result, I will be pissed.
I had not thought of that.

Maybe they will go down because there is no health insurance to pay out when your brains are smeared down the road.

Not yours specifically just the collective no helmet group.
Feb 21st 2019, 03:44 AM   #25
 Mudslinger's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Seabeck

  Africa Twin
Turns out that just because you're wearing a helmet doesn't mean that you are protected.

"4 out of 10 DOT-Certified Helmets Fail Government Performance Tests"
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...ormance-tests/
Feb 21st 2019, 01:21 PM   #26
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
I had not thought of that.

Maybe they will go down because there is no health insurance to pay out when your brains are smeared down the road.

Not yours specifically just the collective no helmet group.
Unfortunately, most of them end up in a vegetative state in a hospital, on our dime.

They should make it so if you ride helmetless without full insurance, your license is revoked and your motorcycle is confiscated. Then it will be fair for everyone.
Feb 21st 2019, 03:03 PM   #27
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Unfortunately, most of them end up in a vegetative state in a hospital, on our dime.
Lot of truth to that.

Friend, wearing a helmet and full gear, broke his neck literally right in front of me. Medical insurance hit the limits of what it would pay and he became a ward of the state. He eventually passed from the injuries. Sad day.

Anyway insurance or no insurance you can still end up the responsibility of tax payers. Why make it more risky than it needs to be?
Feb 21st 2019, 04:57 PM   #28
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  KTM SAR Husqvarna Strada, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Unfortunately, most of them end up in a vegetative state in a hospital, on our dime.

They should make it so if you ride helmetless without full insurance, your license is revoked and your motorcycle is confiscated. Then it will be fair for everyone.
Perhaps they should make it so that if you eat food that is bad for you, or drink alcohol, take drugs, practice unsafe sex, etc, etc,etc without insurance they should just let you die.

In the grand scheme of things, the expense of folks who ride un-helmeted is a drop in the bucket compared to other unhealthy habits.
Feb 21st 2019, 07:40 PM   #29
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
Perhaps they should make it so that if you eat food that is bad for you, or drink alcohol, take drugs, practice unsafe sex, etc, etc,etc without insurance they should just let you die.

In the grand scheme of things, the expense of folks who ride un-helmeted is a drop in the bucket compared to other unhealthy habits.
If they ever agree on what food is bad for you etc. maybe they should raise insurance rates on those. They already know that moderate alcohol consumption is good for you...

If, on the other hand, they make motorcycle insurance mandatory for all because of people who want to ride helmetless, I'll be pissed.
Feb 22nd 2019, 09:57 AM   #30
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  KTM SAR Husqvarna Strada, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
If they ever agree on what food is bad for you etc. maybe they should raise insurance rates on those. They already know that moderate alcohol consumption is good for you...

If, on the other hand, they make motorcycle insurance mandatory for all because of people who want to ride helmetless, I'll be pissed.
There already is a separate House Bill to make motorcyclist carry the same basic liability as any other motor vehicle, helmeted or not. I do believe this was introduced well ahead of the helmet use bill.

The provision for liability insurance in the helmet bill was put there to mollify those of us who don't want to pay for someone else's poor choice. However it will do nothing to help pay for their long term care since it is only liability insurance they are requiring.

Fat people, smokers, drunk/high people, unhealthy life style folks, ass hole drivers, already cost us a pant load of money in our health and vehicle insurance premiums. I suspect we are already paying jacked up premiums for our motorcycle insurance to subsidize those who ride un-helmeted in other states.

We are going to pay, one way or another.
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