Instagram     

Go Back   PNW Moto > Washington > Seattle

Seattle Seattle Rides, meetups, regional discussions | Seattle, Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond, Bothell

Like Tree33Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Nov 1st 2019, 12:19 PM   #1
 Basco2's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Mill Creek/Snohomish

  DRZ 400SM
WA State 2-wheel motorcycle permit and endorsement processes will change 1/1/20

I didnt see anything mentioned here about this yet so heads up.......

https://licensingexpress.wordpress.c...on-jan-1-2020/

As part of a broader effort to reduce serious crashes and fatalities on Washington’s roadways, the state is changing its requirements for getting a 2-wheel permit or endorsement.

Starting Jan. 1, 2020, motorcyclists seeking a permit will need to pass a basic knowledge and skills exam. They must pass a more advanced knowledge and skills exam for an endorsement.

Currently, motorcyclists must pass only a basic knowledge exam and skills test for an endorsement.

Motorcyclists represent a disproportionately high percentage of fatal and serious injury crashes. Switching to a more comprehensive exam process is in line with Gov. Jay Inslee’s Target Zero goal of reducing serious motor vehicle crashes and fatalities to zero by 2030.

Frequently asked questions about the law changes:

What must I do if I already have a motorcycle permit?

Individuals who already have a permit can take either a training course or a skills test before Dec. 31, 2019, to obtain a 2-wheel endorsement. See approved motorcycle training schools.

What must I do if I already have an endorsement?

Nothing. You’re all set.

What if I have taken a motorcycle knowledge test but I do not have a motorcycle permit?

If you want a motorcycle permit, you must visit a licensing service office to add it to your driver license. If you want a 2-wheel endorsement, you must pass a skills test. After that, you must visit a licensing office by Dec. 31, 2019 to add the endorsement.

What do I need to do if I already have a motorcycle permit but I did not get my endorsement by Dec. 31?

As long as your permit is still valid, take the 2-wheel endorsement-level knowledge test and a 2-wheel endorsement-level skills test. After passing both, visit a licensing office to add an endorsement to your driver license.

Am I able to renew my permit?

You can renew your permit once after Jan. 1, 2020.

What if my permit has expired?

You must start the process again. After Jan. 1, 2020, you must take a permit-level knowledge test and a permit-level skills test if your permit is expired.

What if I am under 18 years old?

If you are under 18, you must complete an approved motorcycle safety course before applying for an endorsement.

What if I want a sidecar/trike permit or endorsement?

The new law is specific to 2-wheel motorcycles. You will need to take a 3-wheel motorcycle training course or take the 3-wheel knowledge and skills tests. See approved trike/sidecar schools.
Nov 1st 2019, 04:48 PM   #2
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Ahhh, Target Zero, the plan that originated in Northern Europe that's ultimate goal is the elimination of personal transportation. The only way to attain zero traffic deaths is to eliminate both private vehicles and then human operators. Motorcycles are an anathema of the ultimate goal because of their inherent danger.

Notice it says nothing about what these "advanced" skills are. Are they going to test you outside of the parking lot environment? See if you know how to actually operate a motorcycle on real roads? Or is this simply a way to make it more difficult to get an endorsement? Certainly makes it more expensive.
Thumperpilot and tod701 like this.
Nov 1st 2019, 04:55 PM   #3
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Ahhh, Target Zero, the plan that originated in Northern Europe that's ultimate goal is the elimination of personal transportation. The only way to attain zero traffic deaths is to eliminate both private vehicles and then human operators. Motorcycles are an anathema of the ultimate goal because of their inherent danger.

Notice it says nothing about what these "advanced" skills are. Are they going to test you outside of the parking lot environment? See if you know how to actually operate a motorcycle on real roads? Or is this simply a way to make it more difficult to get an endorsement? Certainly makes it more expensive.
When I get to a keyboard and have some time, I'll fill you in on "Advanced Skills" test.

Get ready for a vent!
Texasl likes this.
Nov 1st 2019, 05:29 PM   #4
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Notice it says nothing about what these "advanced" skills are.
yeah you have to dig a bit deeper to find out the particulars...there's a bunch of videos..5 to be exact..on the bottom of this page that explain and show exactly what is required by advanced skills...they seemed okay to me...

https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/mototesting.html
Nov 1st 2019, 05:35 PM   #5
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Motorcycle
We should be required to re test every 5-10 years to drive a vehicle.
while this may be or at least seem to be a good idea...I'm not sure how crowded or how long the lines are at the Washington State licencing departments..but I know they suck to high heaven down here in Oregon...if you added the number of people who would have to re-test every 5 years or so it would be a lot worse...next someone will say re-test all of those old bastards over 65...
Nov 1st 2019, 06:55 PM   #6
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
next someone will say re-test all of those old bastards over 65...
You mean those of us who don't walk/talk/live with our cell phones, who actually look over our shoulders before changing lanes, are capable of parallel parking without the aid of back-up cameras, can read a map and actually change a tire?
Nov 1st 2019, 07:01 PM   #7
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
yeah you have to dig a bit deeper to find out the particulars...there's a bunch of videos..5 to be exact..on the bottom of this page that explain and show exactly what is required by advanced skills...they seemed okay to me...

https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/mototesting.html
The videos you see are for the current skills test. After Jan 1st, that will be the skills test to get your permit.

The "Advanced" skills test, as of now, consists of 2 runs. The first is a quick stop from 20-25 MPH average to a .7g average standard. The second is right and left hand corner.
Each run is pass/fail. You either do it or you don't.

That is all.

You will also have to pass an "Advanced" Knowledge test, which consists of 50 questions which are very similar to the current 25 question permit test.

After Jan 1 2020 any class you take will result in a permit. Your permit will be good for 180 days and renewable once for an additional 180 days. You will have to return, on your motorcycle to take the "Advanced" written and skills.

Veritas is correct. This was all driven by Target Zero. The decisions were made by DOL and were based on "We gotta do something." and were not data driven. They hope that the additional testing and expense will weed out those who are not serious about motorcycling.

All this additional testing will do is encourage people to ride without an endorsement.

We are not dying because we cannot stop to a .7g standard. It is because we put ourselves in a position to need to do that stop by exhibiting a lack of good mental and decision making skills. This will do nothing to help fix that.

This is all subject to change. The DOL is forging ahead with a flawed skills an written test with the attitude "We can fix it if problems arise".

Stand by.

Dusty

Edited by Bald Guy on Nov 1st 2019 at 07:05 PM
Nov 1st 2019, 09:28 PM   #8
 
  Mar 2018
  Olympia

  2016 Kawasaki Z1000,2015 Polaris sportsman XP1000,2017 Ktm 690 enduro R
..next someone will say re-test all of those old bastards over 65...

65 is too soon, but 67 would be a good time to start checking driving skills again. ��
Nov 2nd 2019, 02:19 AM   #9
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16Z1000
..next someone will say re-test all of those old bastards over 65...

65 is too soon, but 67 would be a good time to start checking driving skills again. ��
yeah 67 sounds good..those whippersnappers are all terrible drivers..most kids are...
Nov 2nd 2019, 09:17 AM   #10
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16Z1000
..next someone will say re-test all of those old bastards over 65...

65 is too soon, but 67 would be a good time to start checking driving skills again. ��
The idea that motorcyclist be retested every 6 years was kicked around for a while at one of our meetings with the DOL. Granted, it was shot down very quickly, but the seed is there.

Dusty
Nov 2nd 2019, 10:08 PM   #11
 
  Jan 2016
  Gig Harbor

  BMW F650GS / BMW R12R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
The idea that motorcyclist be retested every 6 years was kicked around for a while at one of our meetings with the DOL. Granted, it was shot down very quickly, but the seed is there.

Dusty
I don't understand why anyone would object to being required to demonstrate an adequate level of riding skills on a periodic frequency. Granted, it would be more equitable to impose the same requirement on car drivers, as well. However, it's just a fact that cars are more forgiving than motorcycles when it comes to operator error. (Yeah, I realize that I'll probably get flamed for not highlighting that lousy drivers kill riders, but a large fraction of rider injuries/fatalities are caused by rider error, not drivers.)

Retesting riders would likely extend some lives by taking riders off the road who no longer possess the skills (or reflexes) needed to stay alive. Seems like a good idea to me.
Nov 3rd 2019, 07:45 AM   #12
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by FidalgoRob
I don't understand why anyone would object to being required to demonstrate an adequate level of riding skills on a periodic frequency. Granted, it would be more equitable to impose the same requirement on car drivers, as well. However, it's just a fact that cars are more forgiving than motorcycles when it comes to operator error. (Yeah, I realize that I'll probably get flamed for not highlighting that lousy drivers kill riders, but a large fraction of rider injuries/fatalities are caused by rider error, not drivers.)

Retesting riders would likely extend some lives by taking riders off the road who no longer possess the skills (or reflexes) needed to stay alive. Seems like a good idea to me.
Much of the objection from the riders point was this would single out motorcyclist. No one, even CDL drivers are retested for skills unless it is company policy/company test.

The fact is our motorcycle tests (even the new "Advanced Test") are not all that challenging for a new rider. They do not test our ability to make good decisions and if we can integrate ourselves safely in traffic with varying road conditions, So redoing a parking lot test would do little good in weeding out poor riders. It may discourage some from getting their endorsement reissued because it may not be worth the expense or hassle. They may either stop riding or stop riding endorsed.

The other is logistics. Last numbers I heard was there are 230,000 (Ish) endorsed riders in Washington. If we had them retest every 6 years that is going to average out to 38,000 retests a year. There are currently 11 contractors. Each contractor would have to give an average of 3400 addition tests each year. Now I am not going to see near that many in the Tri-Cities The west side folks are going to see much more. You think the wait times at the DOL are bad

Now I would love to see that kind of increase in customers, but I have a dedicated facility and could do testing all day long. Many contractors do not have that luxury and only have access to pavement during the weekends.

I honestly do not know what the answer is to decrease fatalities. I do not think this is a problem we can test our way out of.

Dusty
Nov 3rd 2019, 08:00 AM   #13
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Do you know if there is a breakdown that shows the number split between the West and East side riders?
Nov 3rd 2019, 08:04 AM   #14
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by FidalgoRob
I don't understand why anyone would object to being required to demonstrate an adequate level of riding skills on a periodic frequency. Granted, it would be more equitable to impose the same requirement on car drivers, as well. However, it's just a fact that cars are more forgiving than motorcycles when it comes to operator error. (Yeah, I realize that I'll probably get flamed for not highlighting that lousy drivers kill riders, but a large fraction of rider injuries/fatalities are caused by rider error, not drivers.)

Retesting riders would likely extend some lives by taking riders off the road who no longer possess the skills (or reflexes) needed to stay alive. Seems like a good idea to me.
The flaw in your theory is that there is no way to actually test for the skill shortages that are actually causing deaths. It is not the inability to properly apply the brakes or the ability to negotiate a narrow lane curve in a parking lot. It is the failure to make quality decisions on entry speed and the failure to get deep enough sight lines to allow the rider to make plans for potential hazards long before they actually encounter said hazards. If you get your eyes far enough out front piss poor braking skills do not even come into play. If you scrub enough speed going into the corner you will not get "surprised" and panic, going into the grab, stab, and stare mode of operation.

As for what DOL is putting into play, IMHO the term "mental masturbation" comes to mind. Unfortunately the wonks at agency that are running the program do not ride, so they have no idea the actual complexity of the problems. Add in the fact that the technical staff from DOL and Traffic Safety that do ride live in an insular world of ATGATT and low risk acceptance, they do not have a decent grasp of the culture of their target population.

If you do not understand why riders behave the way they do then how can you address the behavior? In the run up to this latest change that question normally elicited the comment "Somebody has to do something."
Nov 3rd 2019, 10:36 AM   #15
 
  Jun 2016
  Portland area

Learning skills is always good. I took the advanced class this year. I'm not a fan of government nanny state thinking however. My 85 year old neighbor who can't see wrapped her car around a tree on the way to dialysis. What about testing for others? What about enforcing the existing laws in lieu of making new ones?

Sent via SM-G930V
Reply

  PNW Moto > Washington > Seattle

Tags
2wheel, change, endorsement, motorcycle, permit, processes, state



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Washington Drivers License has motorcycles as an endorsement/restriction? beansbaxter Motorcycles 2 Aug 25th 2017 09:04 AM
Event: Everyone in the 9th District / SE WA state! JohnnyM Spokane 0 Mar 22nd 2017 09:55 PM
Trip Permit for Race Bike? Burphel Motorcycles 3 Mar 14th 2017 09:10 PM
signed up for the endorsement class after 22 years SilvieFox Motorcycles 57 Feb 29th 2016 07:17 AM
Motorcycle Endorsement Zx9rJonathan Motorcycles 8 Feb 17th 2016 02:35 PM




Copyright © 2019 PNW Moto. All rights reserved.