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Aug 15th 2018, 05:27 PM   #16
 Andonon's Avatar
 
  Jul 2018
  Mill Creek

  06 SV650S
Update. My whole life has changed dammit! My bike is upset, I’m sliding my rear tire. Feels cool but way different and I’m not really having fun. I don’t want to Moto GP these corners. I think it’s triggering SR’s as I’ve felt wide in a couple corners. I’ve decided to practice this technique on track days and for emergencies. Otherwise I’m gonna move away from trail braking on street and see how that goes.

So Scribbles video up above in the first 15 seconds gave me my clue. I see his point and exiting highways this can be useful or when jackass is following.

All the hype. All the curiousity. Trail braking is awesome *on the track*. I’m looking for a track day in sept oct when it’s cooler to practice trail braking specifically, I’ve been practicing. I don’t like it. I totally get it. Contact patch increases to carry load into a turn, I mean I do, but it’s not right for street. I mean if you just think about it from a rider input point of view, that’s a crap load of rider input when it’s not needed. Even at double it speeds I feel better with a good line and braking upright then a good flick and roll on.

Cool chat. I really feel there’s a big point here, this is really not needed on the street and to practice it, you really need to be on the track. Practicing on street is kinda sketchy.
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Edited by Andonon on Aug 15th 2018 at 05:36 PM Reason: Typos
Aug 15th 2018, 05:36 PM   #17
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
lots to learn on the track.
lots you can't learn there, too.
i just wish the lessons weren't all so painfully expensive.
Aug 15th 2018, 06:54 PM   #18
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
No argument, Andonon. Trail braking is just an aggressive way to get through a corner faster. If you don’t need to do that then just roll on and off. No need to use the brakes at all if you ride mellow.
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Aug 15th 2018, 07:33 PM   #19
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Just don't try more lean angle while simultaneously using more front brake...

How are you sliding the rear tire while trail braking with the front?
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Aug 15th 2018, 08:08 PM   #20
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I was on a Fossil run with Bill “Speedgeek”’s group one time and was following Polvo through a set of twisties. I was riding very aggressively to keep pace and braking later and harder into the corners to not let a gap open.

Coming down a hill into a tight right hander, I ran up too close and had to apply more brake than I intended. I went into a stoppie to not hit Polvo’s back tire. Then I had to lay over hard to not overshoot the turn and catapult over the bank.

That was the most aggressive trail braking I can remember doing on the street.
Aug 15th 2018, 08:32 PM   #21
 
  Feb 2016
  tacoma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
I was on a Fossil run with Bill ďSpeedgeekĒís group one time and was following Polvo through a set of twisties. I was riding very aggressively to keep pace and braking later and harder into the corners to not let a gap open.

Coming down a hill into a tight right hander, I ran up too close and had to apply more brake than I intended. I went into a stoppie to not hit Polvoís back tire. Then I had to lay over hard to not overshoot the turn and catapult over the bank.

That was the most aggressive trail braking I can remember doing on the street.
that is not trail braking, you failed to set the right entry speed and panicked i trail brake regularly while street riding, doesnt mean i am going fast just the habit i have formed. I use it to tighten lines or to scrub speed, no motogp bs.

is polvo a doctor? If so I remember riding with that guy like 10 years ago up here in WA. Seems he is still quick
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Aug 15th 2018, 08:38 PM   #22
 
  Feb 2016
  tacoma

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfchapin
With the new Michelins, the front is a much softer carcass and not as grippy. Remember all the crashes in Argentina when they started testing? All front-end lowsides. They don’t take kindly to trail braking, which is why Maverick ViŮales did so well last year; he doesn’t trail brake for most corners.
I know the grip level was way down on the fronts, or least there was a finite line between slipping and crashing, but I also understood that last year's michelin rear had so much grip that it pushed the front causing many of the crashes. All that aside they were still at race record pace or higher.
Aug 15th 2018, 08:49 PM   #23
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Well, I had been trail braking. But that particular turn was just abrupt lock up with no transition.

And yes, Brian is a therapist I believe, helluva rider and super nice guy. His plate read MYPROZAC.
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Aug 16th 2018, 07:18 AM   #24
 Andonon's Avatar
 
  Jul 2018
  Mill Creek

  06 SV650S
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
Just don't try more lean angle while simultaneously using more front brake...

How are you sliding the rear tire while trail braking with the front?
I changed my riding style. I stand on my pegs, not butt in the seat when Iím cornering. I donít know for sure that Iím sliding, but it feels like it on my pegs.

I thing the difference being Iíve added a lot of braking while cornering as opposed to braking while upright. Iíve seen the same effect watching Moto GP enter corners and Iíve equated it to that. I also think Iím carrying higher rpm into the corners and some engine braking is in effect here. I can hear my revs go up when I flick into turns, so I suspect Iím losing traction with this practice Iím doing. Like I said, it feels good, and cool, and tricky, but itís for the track.
Aug 16th 2018, 11:14 AM   #25
 SilverdaleSupermoto's Avatar
 
  Mar 2017
  Bremerton, WA

  '16 DRZ400SM, '01 XT225
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
Just don't try more lean angle while simultaneously using more front brake...



How are you sliding the rear tire while trail braking with the front?


For me, downshifting and aggressively releasing the clutch. Front is doing the hard braking, rear is a combination of light brake and engine brake. I use that mainly with my supermoto because itís so light and easy to flick around.
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Aug 17th 2018, 07:03 AM   #26
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverdaleSupermoto
For me, downshifting and aggressively releasing the clutch. Front is doing the hard braking, rear is a combination of light brake and engine brake. I use that mainly with my supermoto because itís so light and easy to flick around.
That's what I do too, but was wondering how he was initiating his with only the front brake.
Aug 17th 2018, 04:20 PM   #27
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
That's what I do too, but was wondering how he was initiating his with only the front brake.
that's just straight-up backing-it-in.

Aug 18th 2018, 07:48 AM   #28
 Andonon's Avatar
 
  Jul 2018
  Mill Creek

  06 SV650S
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
that's just straight-up backing-it-in
Hahaha. Now Weíve arrived at the point of it all. ďBut did you die?!Ē I live that sticker...
Aug 18th 2018, 09:38 AM   #29
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
Did someone say "Back it in"?

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Aug 19th 2018, 09:36 AM   #30
 NoirCat's Avatar
 
  Jan 2018
  Spanaway, WA

  2014 Honda CB1100, 2014 Suzuki GSXr
I kinda load balance my braking (front/rear), but that said... I have zero days at the track (but a lot of stupid shit tried on public roadways I'm glad I survived).

Long story short, suspension is still a mystery to me (I got rid of my car six years ago, I'm only on two wheels, so it generally isn't lack of practice, it's more dialing in that sweet spot is MUCH more art than science in my world), braking is something I do when I gotta, and I have a lot of room for improvement, despite reading a similar catalogue of books, watching the films, washing the people's truck (bonus points if you got that one)...
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