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Aug 16th 2017, 10:43 AM   #46
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonSon
All this flaxseed smoothy talk makes me want a milkshake.

I tried a carrot / orange / grapefruit / turmeric / ginger juice and a watermelon / lime / basil juice at the farmer's market yesterday... blech. Not my choice of flavor combinations.
I would agree with you there. There are lots of juice and smoothie combos that I think are disgusting. While food can be your medicine, you should avoid making it taste like medicine.
Aug 16th 2017, 02:20 PM   #47
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Glad you are doing better Vaun and have found what works.

On the other hand, I'm the fatest I've ever been, by 20+ lbs., after having my gallbladder taken out last December. Eating what I want, when I want, and washing it down with beer certainly has it's disadvantages. Maybe it's time to take a page out of your dietary book and not look like I'm stuffing two pounds of meat in one pound bag as I try and put on my leathers.
Aug 16th 2017, 03:25 PM   #48
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I am sorry to learn of your gallbladder. What is it like to function without that? And why was it removed?
Aug 16th 2017, 03:54 PM   #49
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Really no perceived function difference without it at all. I was weary about having it removed, from what I was reading, so I completely changed my diet to avoid it. Mostly vegetables with lean meat, fish and chicken, but by the time I had surgery nothing mattered really. I could have been eating full blown vegan and I'd still be up all night on oxy or vicodin just to take the edge off the pain.

In six months it went from completely normal, no gallbladder stones, verified by ultrasound, liver function tests, etc., to six months later having a huge stone blocking the duct, it twisting in on itself and a hole that was about to bore through. It took two surgeons, usually one is needed, twice as long to get it out. It was about to go in a bad way. In the end I got super lucky yet again.

So 40 lbs gain over the last six months of eating everything and anything has been pretty funny.
Aug 16th 2017, 11:08 PM   #50
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
As they say, mention that you are a vegetarian and suddenly everyone has PhD in nutrition science!

On the other hand, there is absolutely no scientific evidence that any diet can reverse diabetes. From what my actual PhD dietologist friend told me, the all plant diets work mostly due to the removal of sugars and carbs with high glycemic index - rice, potatoes, white bread - while retaining enough fiber and slow carbs to feed the gut bacteria. None of which requires avoiding meat.
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Aug 17th 2017, 12:19 AM   #51
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Reversal, remission, the need no longer for insulin. Close enough for the person with diabetes.

I have not done a lot of research on diabetes. I have only read that the WFPB diet can relieve diabetics from having to take insulin.

I just read a few resources and diets like the Mediterranean that restrict simple carbs and help them reduce fat in their body can also put the diabetic into remission.

Edited by Transported on Aug 17th 2017 at 01:58 AM
Aug 17th 2017, 02:03 AM   #52
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
Really no perceived function difference without it at all.

In six months it went from completely normal, no gallbladder stones, verified by ultrasound, liver function tests, etc., to six months later having a huge stone blocking the duct...

So 40 lbs gain over the last six months of eating everything and anything has been pretty funny.
I read that we can live without a gallbladder fine.

So what do you think caused you to suddenly get stones?

And why did you suddenly begin to eat everything you desire and gain weight? I don't get the connection.
Aug 17th 2017, 07:33 AM   #53
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
I read that we can live without a gallbladder fine.

So what do you think caused you to suddenly get stones?

And why did you suddenly begin to eat everything you desire and gain weight? I don't get the connection.
It's function is to concentrate a portion of bile, by removing water out of it, that the liver secretes to help break down very fatty foods. Without it you still get bile in your intestine for digestion purposes, but might not be enough if you eat something very fatty. You don't need it to function normally. Some might have to change their diet, more greens and less fatty foods, but otherwise your body functions just fine.

Before I had it removed I avoided fatty foods, cause any time I ate them, I'd be up all night with gallbladder pains which were particularly vicious for me. Nothing like trying to function normally with no sleep and being in a lot of pain, or drooling on Oxy. Afterwards it's been, "Just because I had a double cheeseburger for lunch, does not mean i could not have a double cheeseburger for diner."

No idea why it went down hill so quickly, from perfectly healthy to destroying itself in 6-months, as my diet only changed for the better. Most go through their entire life without ever feeling it, some with it being full of stones too, and for some it just goes bad even when they are young. Even the surgeon that has taken out thousands of these just said, no idea, sometimes they just can't track down why it formed stones so quickly and reacted the way it did. Liver plays a part in it, but mine was just fine. I went through a good amount of chemo some years back and it's effects can be everlasting on the body. The gallbladder might have quietly suffered till it turned for the worse because of it.
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Aug 17th 2017, 09:30 PM   #54
 cjohns's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Moscow, Idaho

  ZX450r
WEird! I JUST watched this movie "What the Health", and logged on here first time in weeks.......

While some of it seemed a little over-the-top conspiracy theory, it certainly made some good points.

@Transported: Where did you find the most useful information regarding the diet you are now on? ie: was there a certain book or books, internet site?
Aug 17th 2017, 10:11 PM   #55
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Time magazine just ran a fact check on What the Health. Their criticisms were few and pretty weak. The doc definitely got a lot more right.

The China Study I would say is the best book with peer reviewed research. T. Colin Campbell was involved in probably the largest study of the effect of diet on health in human populations and then also showed the connection between diet and disease in the laboratory. He was able to start up and turn off the growth of cancer cells in laboratory rats with animal protein but plant protein had no such effect. He is a pioneer in the field of nutrition.

Forks Over Knives is a very good documentary about the story of Campbell and Dr. Esselstyn, a surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic who got tired of cutting patients and administering drugs and watched his patients never get better. So the clinic gave him a group of patients with advanced heart disease and let him put them on a plant based diet. Only one of them had another event and most showed reversal of their disease. His experiment became a milestone showing that heart disease can be reversed, a thing most doctors today deny, from my experience. They are just ill informed about nutrition.

Those are two good places to start.

I was influenced by Dr. Joel Fuhrman because his The End of Heart Disease is easy reading, includes a lot of information and has advice on how to get started, including recipes and suggested diets.

Edited by Transported on Aug 17th 2017 at 10:14 PM
Aug 18th 2017, 10:28 AM   #56
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon

  2017 Kaw Ninja 1000 ABS (Z1000SX)
Interesting discussion! What were you eating before all of this started?? I hope you have a good Life Insurance policy..

I have similar issues, had a stent installed 10 yrs ago, currently on Crestor. Diagnosed high cholesterol in '93. Inherited from Dad, my daughter has it too. I have heard that no matter what you do, genetics will always be the ultimate factor.

I have never seen any solid evidence that arterial plaque can be reduced or dissolved through diet, although I suppose it's possible.

I must take issue with your claim of 85 total cholesterol. You mean LDL and HDL combined, or just LDL? Dude, that's almost impossible, unless you have very little HDL. Plus we know that the total cholesterol number in meaningless anyway, without breaking out the components.
Aug 18th 2017, 11:51 AM   #57
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
You sound old school, like my rehab therapists and doctors. When I told the head of the cardio rehab unit at OHSU my goal was to reverse my heart disease, he sort of rolled his eyes and indicated he has never seen it. Dude, there are studies documenting it. Stop being ignorant and discouraging or selling short your patients.

This is the bullshit we have to deal with at all levels of the medical conglomerate.

I believe genetics plays a small role and in most cases can be overcome easily. I already said that people who settle here from a country with extremely low or nearly non existent heart disease, cancer or diabetes have their offspring in a generation have the same disease rate as Americans on the standard crap US diet.

And heart disease is not inevitable. An anthropologist who went to Bolivia to live with a hunter gatherer tribe recently found that almost no one had heart disease. Men in their 70s and 80s had zero plaque. The scientists who did the testing think it is because they eat mostly plants and only a small amount of wild caught game or fish, plus they walk a moderate paced 8 miles a day in their daily activities. They are not sedentary. Even the people who were overweight had no plaque.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsand...s-in-the-world

And The China Study found that in parts of China with no heart disease, their cholesterol was 85 or less. What we consider normal here (150 I believe) would be considered high there. That is why our scale of cholesterol and frankly appraisal of healthful readings in general is false. Our range is based on a sick population.

Edited by Transported on Aug 18th 2017 at 11:56 AM
Aug 20th 2017, 11:01 AM   #58
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

Recent studies are indicating that type 2 diabetes is primarily caused by fat, not sugar.

The really messed up thing is that all of the big health organizations like the Heart Association, Diabetes Association, etc. are funded by meat and dairy. You pretty much can't trust anything they say.
Aug 20th 2017, 11:25 PM   #59
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Mark Bittman's Ted Talk.

https://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittm...next#t-1184438

And Dean Ornish, one of the early advocates of diet to reverse heart disease. He continues to do research with diet and disease, most recently finding that cancer can be stopped and reversed with plants. His program of diet and lifestyle is even paid for by some insurance plans.

https://www.ted.com/talks/dean_ornis...-next#t-205928

Edited by Transported on Aug 20th 2017 at 11:36 PM
Aug 21st 2017, 08:33 AM   #60
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
The Ornish talk is really interesting, in particular the part at the end about maintenance of one's mental state. Thanks.
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