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Aug 14th 2017, 04:01 PM   #16
 Rustydust's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Emmett Idaho

  2010 Honda Goldwing, 2007 Suzuki Burgman 650, 2005 Kawasaki KLR 650, 1995 Honda PC800
I dont smoke and I dont drink and I am a healthy 65 years old. Like my parents and grandparents (who all lived to be in their 80's) I enjoy a good steak or other kinds of red meat 3-4 times a week. Chicken or fish on the other days. While I not condemning you for your own personal eating habits I am very thankful that they are yours and not mine. Grilling and then savoring every bite of a delicious mouth watering ribeye steak is certainly not something that I am going to stop doing with the hopes adding a few months or even a year or two onto my life. Like the 50 years of motorcycle riding that I have done I think much more of the pleasure that it brings me that worry about what may happen.
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Aug 14th 2017, 04:33 PM   #17
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I respect what you have to say. No one is really sure why some people seem to be disease-free even though their lifestyle or family history indicates otherwise.
Life is a crapshoot. And, the vast majority (as far as heart disease and diabetes) are losers.

For instance, people from parts of the world with extremely low incidences of cancer, heart disease and diabetes produce offspring in America who tend to have the same disease frequency as the Americans they grew up with. That would indicate they have assumed the typical American diet and their DNA isn’t protecting them.

The American Heart Association asserts that only 1% of Americans have disease-free hearts (are you that one lucky lottery winner?). And I already mentioned the autopsies of young people who already have evidence of heart disease. For the soldiers, I believe it was in the high 70% who had disease already. Like them odds?

We can only do our best. And, from my experience, that means doing the best we know from scientific studies, observing those few communities around the world who are mostly disease free, and hearing personal testimony from people who have done things to turn their diseases around. They all point to better health with more plants in the diet.

As for a juicy steak. I once enjoyed that. Now I am frankly sort of queasy when I see it or smell it. I think we can change our thinking on many things, diet included. I thought I could never live without cheese. Disgusts me now. A few months ago, I thought stir fry without oil would be tasteless. I actually enjoy stir fry now. It has a less oily taste and I feel clean after I've eaten it, not sluggish.

Our taste buds can adapt, as does our gut bacteria. If I were to drink milk now, I'd probably have a stomachache for hours. If you were to eat six pieces of fruit and a huge garden salad in one day (part of my 3,000 daily calories), you would probably have the worst stomach pain in your life and spend 70% of your time on the toilet.

You are 65 and apparently healthy. If you had had a heart attack and stroke at 50 and were on a half dozen medications and were looking forward to more stents and open heart surgery and more meds, followed by diabetes and congestive heart failure, would you have cut back on the steak? Or would losing your health a decade early be a fair trade off for the taste of a food group?
Aug 14th 2017, 06:03 PM   #18
 Rustydust's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Emmett Idaho

  2010 Honda Goldwing, 2007 Suzuki Burgman 650, 2005 Kawasaki KLR 650, 1995 Honda PC800
I think that it is very safe to say the most people in their 80's and 90's today have eaten meat all of their lives. If giving up my delicious meats for an extra year or two means having to eat bland foods from now on then I sure will take the meat.

Like you said, people's taste buds change and can adapt. Just as I could possibly extend my life by giving up motorcycling. I could adapt to driving my car and/or walking everywhere I go. I just refuse to do so and am going to keep on taking my chances. And hopefully, loving every minute of it like I have been doing for the last 65 years.

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Aug 14th 2017, 07:29 PM   #19
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
it is the heart attack that cures most people of their suicidal diet.

imagine if you put everything you eat in a day into the soil of your favorite house plant.

what do you think would happen to it?
Probably the same thing as if I ate bullshit every day.
Aug 14th 2017, 07:48 PM   #20
 Lena's Avatar
Forum Admin
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  Monsters
Glad to hear you're better now. While it's a lofty goal to save someone's life, I tend to think that we all learn from our own mistakes the best. Sad but true. I doubt anyone here will take your story to heart enough to change their diet. We only do after the calamity happened and even then - some of us don't. Especially to that kind of extreme. If anyone does, please post and prove me wrong. If I were you, I'd post it on some cancer fighting or survivor forum or support group - there are lots of those and you have a better chance of helping anyone.

And there is one more thing you didn't mention at all, that affects your heart condition but no diet in the world can change: stress. I recommend meditation
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Aug 14th 2017, 07:57 PM   #21
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Everyone here seems to be forgetting that we are all going to kill ourselves riding motorcycles.
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Aug 14th 2017, 08:10 PM   #22
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperDr
Save your life as in never die? Food for thought, we all will go at some point.

I would like to think quality of life is one of the most important things.

Chop
That is the thing. My quality of life was shit. The meds that were supposed to improve me were making me sick and depressed. On the full dose of beta blocker they recommended, I could not do any of my regular activities that made me happy. I moved around like my grandfather with emphysema just before he died at 70.

The choice was to follow their advice and warm up that rocking chair or figure out something else.

It was all about quality of life, and only by extension longevity.

And as for the foods you love, how strong does that love remain when you realize they are trying to kill you?

As Dr. Gregor says, "Nothing tastes as good as healthy feels."
Aug 14th 2017, 08:27 PM   #23
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Glad to hear you're better now. While it's a lofty goal to save someone's life, I tend to think that we all learn from our own mistakes the best. Sad but true. I doubt anyone here will take your story to heart enough to change their diet. We only do after the calamity happened and even then - some of us don't. Especially to that kind of extreme. If anyone does, please post and prove me wrong. If I were you, I'd post it on some cancer fighting or survivor forum or support group - there are lots of those and you have a better chance of helping anyone.

And there is one more thing you didn't mention at all, that affects your heart condition but no diet in the world can change: stress. I recommend meditation
Thanks for the kind words. But I don't agree that we only change behavior when forced to.

I had read about that Korean soldier autopsy story back in high school. It made me begin to realize I was probably no different from them. I cut out all fast food and deep fried food then. And when my ex suggested a vegetarian life, I was happy to oblige.

I was also observing my dad eating pastries, soda, meat and not exercising while he went from fat to obese and then heart attacks and diabetes. So, I decided to do the opposite. I exercised daily and eliminated processed foods and things associated with disease when new studies would come out.

And I have joined vegan health groups. But that is basically preaching to the choir. And this forum still seems like one of my homes. Enough to want to share things that seem important.

Stress reduction is one area that I can definitely improve. My stress reduction tends to be stuff like hitting triple digits on my motorcycle.
Aug 14th 2017, 08:39 PM   #24
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
I think it's important to remember that we are designed to be omnivores, eating both animal and plant. Eliminating either is not the healthiest.
Actually we are not omnivores. Do we look like bears? We are most like our closest primates, chimps and bonobos. Their diet is 97% plant and 3% insects. We have a jaw that goes up and down and sideways for grinding plants. Omnivore jaws only go up and down. Our intestinal tract is many times longer than an omnivore's to break down plants. Their stomach acid is many times stronger to digest decaying flesh. We are frugivores who eat like we are omnivores.
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Aug 14th 2017, 11:16 PM   #25
 cgt1229's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Bellingham

  Suzuki
Not that it's all true, but I read somewhere (internet) riding a street bike for 1 hour burns 350 calories.
Do a trackday and if you've been lagging on a exercise routine, or haven't spent much time in the saddle previously, you feel it the next couple days. The body feels sore, however, if you ride 180 miles non stop or more if the tank allows, helps with stamina, so some calories must be being burned. No cardio I suppose, but to think merely riding burns calories is a fun way to make it serve some kind of purpose other than just a fun
pointless activity.

Obviously diet is the most important thing to realize a positive outcome. Not sure I could go full plant based, I try to minimize highly processed foods, never drink pop only water, coffee and tequila and a little half n half in the morning with coffee. Lots of blue berries, eggs, salad, chicken and fish. My folks are nearing 90 and mom is still a great cook, she's been serving all manner of meat over the years, I have to lay on the floor after meal at their place, so much food and always some kind of dessert afterward.
Aug 14th 2017, 11:36 PM   #26
 Lena's Avatar
Forum Admin
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  Monsters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Thanks for the kind words. But I don't agree that we only change behavior when forced to.

I had read about that Korean soldier autopsy story back in high school. It made me begin to realize I was probably no different from them. I cut out all fast food and deep fried food then. And when my ex suggested a vegetarian life, I was happy to oblige.

I was also observing my dad eating pastries, soda, meat and not exercising while he went from fat to obese and then heart attacks and diabetes. So, I decided to do the opposite. I exercised daily and eliminated processed foods and things associated with disease when new studies would come out.

And I have joined vegan health groups. But that is basically preaching to the choir. And this forum still seems like one of my homes. Enough to want to share things that seem important.

Stress reduction is one area that I can definitely improve. My stress reduction tends to be stuff like hitting triple digits on my motorcycle.
That's not what I said. Most of us are capable of improving our diets, some more, some less. But it takes an extreme event to make and extreme change. For you - it did too.

And I didn't say vegan health groups, read again? ...
Aug 15th 2017, 12:04 AM   #27
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I am saying that I have been making big and small changes as I learned more. I stopped fast food and fried food when I read about the Korea study. I cut my milk products down to 5% or less after reading The China Study. I became totally vegan when I had it confirmed I had some arterial buildup. And I went to whole food plant based when I found out that just being vegan would not reverse heart disease. I would say that only on the latter two was an extreme life event followed by more urgent action. The earlier changes were based on no symptoms but on simple new knowledge.

And the vegan groups are actually very much what you suggested. People who are sick are joining to see if they can be improved with a whole food plant based diet. Some are just interested in trying it. Some like me explain my experience and my improvement. We share stories and the latest information and offer advice to newbies. We also try the latest Portland WFPB restaurants or have potlucks where we share recipes.
Aug 15th 2017, 12:17 AM   #28
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgt1229
Not that it's all true, but I read somewhere (internet) riding a street bike for 1 hour burns 350 calories.
Do a trackday and if you've been lagging on a exercise routine, or haven't spent much time in the saddle previously, you feel it the next couple days. The body feels sore, however, if you ride 180 miles non stop or more if the tank allows, helps with stamina, so some calories must be being burned. No cardio I suppose, but to think merely riding burns calories is a fun way to make it serve some kind of purpose other than just a fun.
Motorcycle riding can be strenuous. I raced motocross, which was at least as physically taxing as bicycle racing. And a track day would probably qualify as a workout, if done right.

But most group rides are ten minutes of vigorous twisties followed by a half hour going to the next set of good twisties, followed by a gas/restaurant or snack break and so on. An entire day and you've been sitting pretty immobile during most of it.

(The first time I really realized how sedentary the activity is was when our group stopped to take a break and several guys pulled out cigarettes and began to smoke. You would never see that on a bicycle ride.)

In contrast, a bicycle ride or elliptical session will burn 900 calories an hour, if done with vigor.

Edited by Transported on Aug 15th 2017 at 12:21 AM
Aug 15th 2017, 08:28 AM   #29
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Actually we are not omnivores. Do we look like bears? We are most like our closest primates, chimps and bonobos. Their diet is 97% plant and 3% insects. We have a jaw that goes up and down and sideways for grinding plants. Omnivore jaws only go up and down. Our intestinal tract is many times longer than an omnivore's to break down plants. Their stomach acid is many times stronger to digest decaying flesh. We are frugivores who eat like we are omnivores.
Sorry, I pulled my google out and I can't stop playing with it.

Some chimps eat monkeys. Lots of monkeys.

BBC - Earth - Chimpanzees over-hunt monkey prey almost to extinction

Chimps die from a completely different type of heart disease than we do, even though 99% of our DNA is the same.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352420/

As to whether we are more like chimps or bears, I submit this data.



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Aug 15th 2017, 08:53 AM   #30
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB

As to whether we are more like chimps or bears, I submit this data.



Laughter is the best medicine. For this, DocB, you win the post of the day!
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