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May 21st 2020, 10:10 AM   #31
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
You know, it always amazes me that so many people piss on H-D. It's a motorcycle. Why should you really give a damn about its weight, saddlebags, chrome or whatever? I was under the impression that this is a motorcycle forum. If you frown upon Harleys and drive a Camaro, do you also frown on Ford's? Do you drive a RAM truck and diss Toyotas? Are scooters and mopeds below your station? Geez people; just enjoy two wheels. If Harley-Davidson goes out of business then we are all poorer for the loss.
I agree to a point, other than I do frown on Ford's mostly for being suckered into a few different versions of "last till the warranty ends" Power Strokes.

I do get tired of the marketing that filters down to the dealerships, where I feel more out of place browsing for a bike than i do at the local hipster coffee shop.

Dear Triumph, pay attention to this, not everyone wants a Speed Street Scrambler Twin
May 21st 2020, 01:51 PM   #32
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
https://jalopnik.com/harley-davidson...0Uo6D2Lmq6r-Oo
May 21st 2020, 04:58 PM   #33
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
That was just sad. I really don't care what anyone one else rides and I agree that its pointless to criticize their choice, but I really think the people that build, service and sell these bikes deserve better. A company stakes a lot of its reputation on their hard work, its only fair that decent leadership should provided for those that do the heavy lifting, sometimes for a lifetime.

Its not like it hasn't been done. Pontiac was nearly shuttered in the early sixties before DeLorean took a station wagon motor and stuffed it into their economy car and created a completely new reputation for the company. Similar story for Iaccoca. If only HD had a more performance oriented motor in their inventory and a guy who could marry it to a chassis. Hmmm

And if traditional HOG owners didn't want to buy it so what, I'll bet few Audi owners know what POS's those car were in the seventies. Same for 90's buy one get one Kia's. Changing those reputations to what they are now took hard work and great engineering and leadership. I would love to see that for HD.
May 21st 2020, 06:04 PM   #34
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  2014 FJR-ES
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
If only HD had a more performance oriented motor in their inventory and a guy who could marry it to a chassis. Hmmm

And if traditional HOG owners didn't want to buy it so what....
Have you ever ridden a V-Rod or Street Rod? I have ridden both with the 1100cc version of the water cooled twin and it was impressive, a lot more performance than the 1200cc vertical twin I currently have in my Yamaha Super Tenere. That engine was later expanded to 1250cc with a big performance boost.

The traditional HOG owners didn’t want to buy it and if a bike doesn’t sell it will sit on showroom floors until the dealers are forced to take a big loss to sell it and won’t order replacements. Harley built a impressive engine but couldn’t convince its base to buy it. A massive problem without a solution when the base gets too old to ride anymore.
May 21st 2020, 07:16 PM   #35
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrider007
Have you ever ridden a V-Rod or Street Rod? I have ridden both with the 1100cc version of the water cooled twin and it was impressive, a lot more performance than the 1200cc vertical twin I currently have in my Yamaha Super Tenere. That engine was later expanded to 1250cc with a big performance boost.

The traditional HOG owners didn’t want to buy it and if a bike doesn’t sell it will sit on showroom floors until the dealers are forced to take a big loss to sell it and won’t order replacements. Harley built a impressive engine but couldn’t convince its base to buy it. A massive problem without a solution when the base gets too old to ride anymore.
I have and I completely agree, its a very impressive motor, but I wasn't digging the forward controls thing enough to buy one. Put in the Livewire chassis or let EB take a crack at it and I'll be the first in line.

In the fifties Pontiac was known for cars like the Super Chief, great for getting you to the early bird special. The guy who hired Delorean used to say“You can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man" and let JZD run with the ball. They went from being nearly closed down to being third behind Ford and GM in the late sixties. Forget the base, how many more bikes are they going to buy of any flavor? And stop trying to sell their kids hipster clones, they don't want their fathers Oldsmobile. This can be done because its already been done.
May 21st 2020, 07:40 PM   #36
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  2014 FJR-ES
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
I have and I completely agree, its a very impressive motor, but I wasn't digging the forward controls thing enough to buy one. Put in the Livewire chassis or let EB take a crack at it and I'll be the first in line.
I’m assuming you are referring to the V-Rod’s forward controls which made riding uncomfortable, awkward, and scary at times. I thought the Street Rod was about halfway between the V-Rod and a decent standard bike and I might have bought that “Standard” if it had ever been built...but the Street Rod had very short production run and I doubt HD ever considered making the Standard that I wanted.
May 22nd 2020, 07:12 AM   #37
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
I have and I completely agree, its a very impressive motor, but I wasn't digging the forward controls thing enough to buy one. Put in the Livewire chassis or let EB take a crack at it and I'll be the first in line.
Which is basically what the promised streetfighter is. A Revolution engine in short wheelbase frame.

Unfortunately the chances of seeing it in production are now very much in doubt.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...les/bronx.html
May 22nd 2020, 07:24 AM   #38
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrider007
Have you ever ridden a V-Rod or Street Rod? I have ridden both with the 1100cc version of the water cooled twin and it was impressive, a lot more performance than the 1200cc vertical twin I currently have in my Yamaha Super Tenere. That engine was later expanded to 1250cc with a big performance boost.

The traditional HOG owners didn’t want to buy it and if a bike doesn’t sell it will sit on showroom floors until the dealers are forced to take a big loss to sell it and won’t order replacements. Harley built a impressive engine but couldn’t convince its base to buy it. A massive problem without a solution when the base gets too old to ride anymore.
One of my favorite 'Pinks' (racing for titles) episode was the guy that believed all the hype and put his new VRod up against and older, stock FJ1200 and got spanked. I actually like the look of the Vrod's, but facts is facts. Know your specifications!
Even a second Gen Ninja 250 has performance spec's similar to a '70's high performance car. My Yamaha 530 TMAX scooter runs away from nearly everything up to around 80.

My HD inclined neighbor bought a very radical HD custom and was going on about it's 120 HP. The thing was loud, rough sounding and minimal in the comfort zone. He got rid of it shortly after he bought it. I am pretty sure my 2002 Suzuki 650 SV S I had at the time would have run away from him everywhere.
HD backed themselves into a corner then fortified the corner, then were surprised when folks quit coming around. Leather and skulls and beards/goatees' only work for so long.
I do like some of the flat track inclined stuff though. With the market down all across the board for motorcycles it is probably too little too late.
May 23rd 2020, 09:57 AM   #39
 
  Jan 2016
  SE PDX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
I have and I completely agree, its a very impressive motor, but I wasn't digging the forward controls thing enough to buy one. Put in the Livewire chassis or let EB take a crack at it and I'll be the first in line.

In the fifties Pontiac was known for cars like the Super Chief, great for getting you to the early bird special. The guy who hired Delorean used to say“You can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man" and let JZD run with the ball. They went from being nearly closed down to being third behind Ford and GM in the late sixties. Forget the base, how many more bikes are they going to buy of any flavor? And stop trying to sell their kids hipster clones, they don't want their fathers Oldsmobile. This can be done because its already been done.

I recall that there was a v-rod with factory mid controls.
May 23rd 2020, 10:07 AM   #40
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver - HD 1250 Hammer Sportster w/Screaming Eagle stuff - GSXR-750 K12
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Which is basically what the promised streetfighter is. A Revolution engine in short wheelbase frame.

Unfortunately the chances of seeing it in production are now very much in doubt.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...les/bronx.html
But the HD 1200XR shown in the Youtube video had all those things and it still failed to sell even at $10-12K-ish --Can they bring the Bronx in at that price-point and sell even ONE?

The Buell XB12S/XB12XT was the Pan America at a modest $12,995 (and they actually sold quite a few), do you think we'll ever see the Pan America--at all?

Where is the Sportster flat-tracker or scrambler?

Roland-Sands can build one, and there are a bazillion 3rd party kits for you to take a $2500 Sporty and make a poor-man's ADV bike out of it, but zero from the factory.

Edited by ShootPDX on May 23rd 2020 at 04:49 PM
May 23rd 2020, 08:28 PM   #41
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX

Where is the Sportster flat-tracker or scrambler?

Roland-Sands can build one, and there are a bazillion 3rd party kits for you to take a $2500 Sporty and make a poor-man's ADV bike out of it, but zero from the factory.
Well, to be honest, the factory DID make a pretty cool bike. The 1977-79 XLCR was a good looker and apparently a lot of fun. I never rode one but author Peter Egan was a fan. You can still find them for sale from $14-19K!

There were also a handful of privateers and some dealerships that made their own versions of cafe racers and flat trackers. While you (maybe) and I like these, the market for them probably isn't enough to support a factory effort.



It goes back to my original point; there are lots of different kinds of bikes out there made by different manufacturers and custom shops. We may not all like one particular style or brand but they are all motorcycles and provide fun and enjoyment for their owners. I started out with Spanish and Japanese two-strokes, a four-cylinder Japanese rocket and a handful of semi-reliable British twins. Ended up with my Harley street tracker. Liked them all.
May 26th 2020, 07:48 AM   #42
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650





I'll have what he's having!




https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...les/bronx.html

And I completely missed this, and the Cafe Racer, and the Flat Tracker. The Pan America leaves me a little underwhelmed but its something.
Dragon Rider likes this.
May 26th 2020, 11:49 AM   #43
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
But the HD 1200XR shown in the Youtube video had all those things and it still failed to sell even at $10-12K-ish --Can they bring the Bronx in at that price-point and sell even ONE?
Actually, the 1200XR still had a heavy, pushrod Sportster engine in a Sportster frame. It had better suspension and "racey" bodywork, but it was still a Sportster.

The Streetfighter is using a lighter, liquid-cooled engine running a much more modern frame and suspension on it. Totally brand new bike, from the ground up.
albatrosscafe likes this.
May 27th 2020, 08:08 AM   #44
 
  Jan 2016
  SE PDX

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T

I remember chasing those tail lights.

Though I think Dean was the only one who got to see it 'off road' if I'm remember a ride report from times past.
May 27th 2020, 04:02 PM   #45
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Actually, the 1200XR still had a heavy, pushrod Sportster engine in a Sportster frame. It had better suspension and "racey" bodywork, but it was still a Sportster.

The Streetfighter is using a lighter, liquid-cooled engine running a much more modern frame and suspension on it. Totally brand new bike, from the ground up.
This I can get behind. Bloor lit a fuse with the triple and a nameplate that wasn't noted for recent performance or reliability that turned into a pretty good fire. Here's hoping HD can do likewise.

"The Triumph men solicited invitations to visit Kawasaski, Suzuki, and Yamaha factories. Why would the Japanese help a potential rival? "They were very open, but they weren't scared of us," he recalls. "They must have looked at us and thought 'If you can do it, good luck to you.'"


Good luck to HD. I hope those bikes get to market.
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