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Apr 30th 2020, 03:27 PM   #46
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2019 Nada
The downside to your electric car is really three practical factors.
First one is recharging time/location. This limits the utility of the vehicle. You may be able to make up for it with a second vehicle, but that kind of negates the point.
Second one is battery death. Very quickly your 200-mile battery will be a 180 mile battery, then a 150 mile battery, then a 100 mile battery etc etc
Also, you will never use _all_ the battery range since the cost of running it out is so high. You will want a reserve capacity which reduces your useful range by about 20% to 25% if your personal safety range is like most people's. And the range anxiety business is very real. My wife actually cried a couple of times when she fucked up and thought she was going to be stranded. She had electric car stress, and often didn't want to use it.
Lastly, when it is time to replace that battery - enjoy THAT sticker shock.
And, yeah, a new motor in a gas car is expensive, but I've owned many, many gas cars and never replaced a motor while my electric cars battery died well within the cars otherwise useful service life. I took a 90% hit on the cars price when I sold it for 10% of what I paid because it could only go maybe 30 miles reliably.
There's other reasons as well - the heater problem, and the highway problem are the biggest.
Your heater eats up your range. A lot.
Going 70 mph?
Welcome to the reality of manufacturers stated range lies and the battery capacity vs speed equation.
No way, Jose.
Apr 30th 2020, 07:13 PM   #47
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2009 Aprilia RSVR, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
Ding Ding Ding.. we have a winner. Seems to me that E-cars are for urban areas only. I live a fantastic 30 miles from my place of employment. No thanx on the EV. I ride one of my 2 bikes 90% of the time. As I'm writing this, I'm watching Texas Metal, a custom car company TV show based in Houston, TX. Think they care about fuel costs, availability, peak oil, etc etc? Think their customers do? No. They are busy as hell, dudes just love dumpin ridiculous amounts of money on their rigs, big and small. That will never change.
Our parents used fossil fuels their whole lives. We have been using fossil fuels our whole lives. Our kids and/or their kids will have to adjust. It's evolutionary. It's not what everyone wants to hear. I'm not into the "I use less fuel than you, therefore I'm a better person than you" game, I don't think that's productive or necessary. I pedaled to work for over ten years (diff job), before it was "cool" to ride to work. I got no end of shit for it; from co-workers, cagers, etc, people just weren't ready for it. It goes against the natural grain of red-neck, football lovin, beer swiggin, back ass, gun toting diesel truck drivin assholes who are threatened by anyone and anything different from themselves.

When our shitty federal government finally hears enough griping from its constituents, maybe they will stop subsidizing the oil and gas companies, stop the ridiculous fracking here and in Canada, and start investing in alternative fuels. But there's too much money to be made now, the infrastructure is in place, and new alternative infrastructure will be very expensive (there's no political will to do much of anything infrastructure wise), so it is what it is. If ya can't beat em, join em. The internal combustion bikes out now are outstanding. You can get one that gets great mileage, or one the goes fast, or one that is utilitarian, or one that is just about a combo of all the above. Why not ride? I consider myself very fortunate that I live in this part of the world; it's beautiful, the roads are pretty good, there's not a ton of traffic, there's always somewhere cool to go. So I try not to think too much about it, I support green politicians and policies, I try to vote with my wallet, not judge those who don't agree with me and just smile and try to get along. We only live once, I'm gonna make myself and those close to me as happy as I can. And if riding makes me happy, I'm much more pleasant to be around, just ask my loving, supportive wife Sorry for the run-on ramble..
Apr 30th 2020, 07:48 PM   #48
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2016 R1, 1999 R1
Saying that our parents did it this way and their parents and future generations will is ignoring the reality of the anthropocene age. We have destroyed the planet for human life in essentially a generation. As the author of The Uninhabitable Earth puts it so well:

“Global warming may seem like a distended morality tale playing out over several centuries and inflicting a kind of Old Testament retribution on the great-great-grandchildren of those responsible, since it was carbon burning in 18th-century England that lit the fuse of everything that has followed. But that is a fable about historical villainy that acquits those of us alive today – and unfairly. The majority of the burning has come in the last 25 years – since the premiere of Seinfeld. Since the end of the second world war, the figure is about 85%. The story of the industrial world’s kamikaze mission is the story of a single lifetime – the planet brought from seeming stability to the brink of catastrophe in the years between a baptism or barmitzvah and a funeral.”
craiger likes this.
May 1st 2020, 11:19 PM   #49
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
I saw that film, too.
They _are_ burning trees.
It _does_ take a shitload of exotic metals to make batteries and semiconductors.
Solar is nice, but all that tech is messy. See above re: batteries etc.
China is where all our electronics comes from. All. Even the stuff DOD uses.
I bought an electric car. Never again. Lose.
I replaced it with a NOS Hyundai. Win.
They _do_ make electricity with coal and natural gas:
THis from the US E.I.A.
"Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation
Natural gas was the largest source—about 38%—of U.S. electricity generation in 2019. Natural gas is used in steam turbines and gas turbines to generate electricity.

Coal was the second-largest energy source for U.S. electricity generation in 2019—about 23%. Nearly all coal-fired power plants use steam turbines. A few coal-fired power plants convert coal to a gas for use in a gas turbine to generate electricity."

Coal is nasty shit for all hands. If your family was in coal, you'd know what I am talking about. Talk about trading your life for your paycheck!

The only way out of the energy/poison sandwich is to use less energy, to make and buy fewer things, and for there to be fewer humans, or at least fewer "rich" humans since all wealth is basically concentrated "energy" taken from many who have little, given to few who have much.

It isn't rocket science.
Did I tell you about this weird trick where you put a few pounds of thorium into a reactor and produce abundant electricity for decades?
May 2nd 2020, 12:02 PM   #50
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Did I tell you about this weird trick where you put a few pounds of thorium into a reactor and produce abundant electricity for decades?
ah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.. China is building a bunch of them...Andrew Yang was promoting them..so at least some Dems are thinking about it...now for some facts...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...ext-generation

and this by actual scientist...

https://thebulletin.org/2019/12/fact...y-andrew-yang/

as I said before..there's no free lunch and no magic pills...
May 2nd 2020, 03:43 PM   #51
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  NW Oregon

It does appear that the radiological impact of thorium mining and milling is somewhat more favorable than that of uranium. Which would be good news for those populations in mining regions who are getting, y'know, a little tired of astronomical leukemia, bone cancer and birth defect rates. Edit: but yeah, on all the other points, think I'll listen to the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists over what seems like the usual lot of Rand cultists.

Edited by WarpShatner7 on May 2nd 2020 at 05:38 PM
May 2nd 2020, 07:04 PM   #52
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
ah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.. China is building a bunch of them...Andrew Yang was promoting them..so at least some Dems are thinking about it...now for some facts...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...ext-generation

and this by actual scientist...

https://thebulletin.org/2019/12/fact...y-andrew-yang/

as I said before..there's no free lunch and no magic pills...
"Claim: Next generation thorium reactors would be safer than current reactors.

True but misleading. Nuclear energy is already very safe, and Yang is correct about that."
...

Claim: Building new nuclear reactors will likely be necessary if the United States wants to achieve net-zero emissions by 2049.

True. Nuclear energy is already the primary ultra-low carbon energy source for base-load electricity generation. Although solar and wind have their place in the energy mix, the primary benefit of nuclear energy is that it is not intermittent, as solar and wind are, so it is almost always available without needing energy storage. So new nuclear reactors will be necessary to both replace aging ones and to meet a net-zero carbon emissions goal.
Do you even read your own links?
May 2nd 2020, 08:44 PM   #53
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2009 Aprilia RSVR, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Saying that our parents did it this way and their parents and future generations will is ignoring the reality of the anthropocene age. We have destroyed the planet for human life in essentially a generation. As the author of The Uninhabitable Earth puts it so well:

“Global warming may seem like a distended morality tale playing out over several centuries and inflicting a kind of Old Testament retribution on the great-great-grandchildren of those responsible, since it was carbon burning in 18th-century England that lit the fuse of everything that has followed. But that is a fable about historical villainy that acquits those of us alive today – and unfairly. The majority of the burning has come in the last 25 years – since the premiere of Seinfeld. Since the end of the second world war, the figure is about 85%. The story of the industrial world’s kamikaze mission is the story of a single lifetime – the planet brought from seeming stability to the brink of catastrophe in the years between a baptism or barmitzvah and a funeral.”

Well said by said author. So be it. I tried to do my part. But a song title from Sting's 1985 LP, Dream of the Blue Turles, "We work the black seam together". Me thinks that is human nature. Our brains out-evolved our primitive brains. Whatever, you know what I mean, it's in our nature to destroy ourselves. Not that it's right, or bound to do a 180 degree about face, just that it is what it is. I am not trying to de-emphasize the issue(s), it's just that with this virus shit going on, I'm just fucking numb to it all. My wife and I are fortunate enough to both be working, I just bought a new ride, I can pay my bills and things are good, but I haven't seen my first grand baby yet..I'm rambling...I feel like I did my part. I pedaled to work for 10 years, I relocated my family to be closer to said job that I could pedal to, we don't overconsume (relative, I know), we recycle what we can, wife works a mile from our house, but we did produce 3 more humans consuming, so there's that. I feel like humans won't be able to change in time and it's gonna get baaaddd...when? In most parts of the world, it's right now. But for most of us here in great PNW, it's not that bad. 20, 30, 50 years from now? Holy shit, I feel bad for my kids when they hit my age, and their kids. What will they think, say and do because of what this generation has done?

That all being said, overall, the planet will heal. It's been here 4+ billion years. It aint goin anywhere, anytime soon. We're just a virus ourselves to the planet, it will cleanse itself of us eventually, regardless. See George Carlin's take on this, awesome.

Edited by craiger on May 2nd 2020 at 08:50 PM Reason: avoiding a re-post
May 2nd 2020, 10:55 PM   #54
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2016 R1, 1999 R1
I think the pandemic may be a blessing in disguise. We need to make these huge changes in our society to work together to eradicate this virus, and it is a mere primer of what we need to do to slow global warming. There was no momentum to meet the Paris Accords even. And, this virus shows that when we want to save lives, we can do fucking anything, even things that were unthinkable yesterday.

A minimum guaranteed wage? Did it.

Medicare for all? Most likely done before this is over.

Vote by mail? Most likely done for most of the US before November

Putting a pause on the economy, proclaiming life more sacred than the market, realizing Keynesian economics can rescue us.

Ceasing air travel.

Most working from home.

Perhaps finally letting science and real, responsible, capable grown ups guide us rather than hucksters, speculators, dogmatists, religious zealots, fake populists and corrupt plutocrats.

And, the planet will survive, even some of the life forms on it. But, no human is going to enjoy a planet this livable ever again.

And, I think we have at best 10 years before we are all struggling to survive, even the wealthy. If life becomes a struggle for most of the world by one, fairly weak virus, imagine a new virus outbreak every few months, on top of hurricanes, floods, droughts, crop failures, migrating hordes in the millions, militarized nations.

This is our wake-up call. We had better heed it.

And, by the way, I got an electric Fiat 500e. Love it. It can get me across the metro area twice over, about as much as I would need. It may not be good for day trips. But, I have an old Subaru for that rare event.

I think it is the start of a beautiful relationship. I have a car that makes me feel good about driving it again. It is not the answer to our problems. But, it is a lesser of evils.
May 3rd 2020, 12:09 AM   #55
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
[INDENT]

Do you even read your own links?
unlike some I actually provide facts and not..uhh let's say 20 year old National Geo articles...in this case the subject was thorium reactors...there's some good and some bad...
yes I actually read ALL of the articles I post...I don't cherry pick them apart either...
thorium will be unnecessary when the fusion generators come online somewhere in the next 20-30 years...you gotta keep up with the times man..thorium is yesterday's news...there will be more than enough energy production in the future to met all demands...nay sayers to left..nay sayers to the right...hell there's things as "carbon scrubbers" to clean the air of the ICE left overs...
get with it...
oh I heard you think manufacturers of EVs lie about their range and shit...like car manufacturer's MPG ratings were ever the the truth or something...say what??

Edited by chadams66 on May 3rd 2020 at 12:16 AM
May 3rd 2020, 06:53 AM   #56
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
unlike some I actually provide facts and not..uhh let's say 20 year old National Geo articles...in this case the subject was thorium reactors...there's some good and some bad...
yes I actually read ALL of the articles I post...I don't cherry pick them apart either...
thorium will be unnecessary when the fusion generators come online somewhere in the next 20-30 years...you gotta keep up with the times man..thorium is yesterday's news...there will be more than enough energy production in the future to met all demands...nay sayers to left..nay sayers to the right...hell there's things as "carbon scrubbers" to clean the air of the ICE left overs...
get with it...
oh I heard you think manufacturers of EVs lie about their range and shit...like car manufacturer's MPG ratings were ever the the truth or something...say what??
Can we survive the global warming that long? Anyway I take it you concede by trying to change the subject.
May 3rd 2020, 06:56 AM   #57
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
I think the pandemic may be a blessing in disguise. We need to make these huge changes in our society to work together to eradicate this virus, and it is a mere primer of what we need to do to slow global warming. There was no momentum to meet the Paris Accords even. And, this virus shows that when we want to save lives, we can do fucking anything, even things that were unthinkable yesterday.

A minimum guaranteed wage? Did it.

Medicare for all? Most likely done before this is over.

Vote by mail? Most likely done for most of the US before November

Putting a pause on the economy, proclaiming life more sacred than the market, realizing Keynesian economics can rescue us.

Ceasing air travel.

Most working from home.

Perhaps finally letting science and real, responsible, capable grown ups guide us rather than hucksters, speculators, dogmatists, religious zealots, fake populists and corrupt plutocrats.

And, the planet will survive, even some of the life forms on it. But, no human is going to enjoy a planet this livable ever again.

And, I think we have at best 10 years before we are all struggling to survive, even the wealthy. If life becomes a struggle for most of the world by one, fairly weak virus, imagine a new virus outbreak every few months, on top of hurricanes, floods, droughts, crop failures, migrating hordes in the millions, militarized nations.

This is our wake-up call. We had better heed it.

And, by the way, I got an electric Fiat 500e. Love it. It can get me across the metro area twice over, about as much as I would need. It may not be good for day trips. But, I have an old Subaru for that rare event.

I think it is the start of a beautiful relationship. I have a car that makes me feel good about driving it again. It is not the answer to our problems. But, it is a lesser of evils.
Science is guiding us toward nuclear energy. Will you zealots finally listen?
May 3rd 2020, 10:28 AM   #58
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Can we survive the global warming that long? Anyway I take it you concede by trying to change the subject.
nah I wan't trying to change the subject..I just noticed something dumb you said and thought I'd mention it...
we ain't going nuclear anytime soon...fission is yesterday's news...kind of like 20 year old National Geo articles...
May 4th 2020, 10:58 AM   #59
 MikeMikeMike's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Seattle

We will just plod along between two very different visions of the future, staggering back and forth every 4-8 years until our entitlement state finally over burdens our ability to finance debt and austerity measures are implemented. That will be a wake up call to many American's and maybe we will finally implement some basic reforms that have been necessary ever since the 1930's (balanced budget amendment, term limits).

The only significant difference between the two parties is the lobbyists they listen to. Republicans favor defense spending and generally big business, while Democrats push labor, social welfare, academic spending, and other big businesses.

Everything else is really just window dressing to try and broaden their appeal.

Should we lower the price of gasoline and or develop new fission technologies? Well we should let the market decide, does it make sense to spend $1B to turn crude oil into magical go juice, or would that money be better spent in LSR thorium/uranium plants to push electrons out into the world? We actually live in such a hampered "free market" economy, that basic economics don't drive capital investment in established markets. Existing players make it impossible for new entries to compete with them. The only really dynamic fields in our economy are in the emerging markets, and those quickly stagnate once a few key players generate enough capital to begin influencing the Government.

So without some magical breakthrough in fusion technology we will just be circling the austerity drain until the collapse. My advice, go out and enjoy the sunset of the petroleum fueled economy, and invest in some land and a huge house on the periphery of a major city. Grow a garden, enjoy life, and wait.
May 4th 2020, 04:30 PM   #60
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2019 Nada
Navy does nuclear power.
I've actually lived and worked inside mobile nuclear power facilities for years on end with no detrimental effect I can discern, other than terminal smart-assery.
It is WICKED expensive to do without fucking up and doing Chernobyl all over the place.
The profit motive makes nuclear a no-go for me.
If we did it as a public resource and let Navy run it under the exact same rules - sure.
Otherwise - fuck no.
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