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Nov 10th 2018, 09:25 AM   #1
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Thumbs up Vid: Could I have avoided this crash??

https://youtu.be/fYE-bULDzbY
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Nov 10th 2018, 10:19 AM   #2
 avboden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Spokane Wa/Knoxville Tn

  2007 BMW F800S. 1999 ATK 605ESDS Sumo
without even watching, knowing how you ride generally like an ass-hat 24/7 i'm going to go with yes, yes you could have.
Nov 10th 2018, 10:25 AM   #3
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Lee
Quote:
Originally Posted by avboden
without even watching, knowing how you ride generally like an ass-hat 24/7 i'm going to go with yes, yes you could have.
So like pants? I ride like pants?

Thanks for your opinion sir.

Edited by SalemCBR on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:47 AM Reason: Add
Nov 10th 2018, 01:45 PM   #4
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
The diamond shaped warning sign seen at the right of the roadway at 4:11 should have been a clue. So, in answer to your question, "yes."
Nov 10th 2018, 02:01 PM   #5
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
yes..do not use your front brake on gravel..you'll byte the dust just about every time you do...your front wheel just tucks under you as you experienced...btdt...

Nov 10th 2018, 05:50 PM   #6
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
The diamond shaped warning sign seen at the right of the roadway at 4:11 should have been a clue. So, in answer to your question, "yes."
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
yes..do not use your front brake on gravel..you'll byte the dust just about every time you do...your front wheel just tucks under you as you experienced...btdt...

Agreed. I am used to front only. Dont think I would have crashed without the 1st guy going down, but he did.
Nov 10th 2018, 07:33 PM   #7
 Greg's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  PDX

  2014 675R, 2015 Versys LT
If I was leading a ride and familiar with the route, no way we would be going full pace up into that stretch.
Nov 11th 2018, 09:02 AM   #8
 MotoDan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Olympia

  2014 KTM 690 / BMW R1150 GS
Be alert look ahead, following too close? Look beyond the gravel where you want the bike togo. Dont panic, be prepared for different conditions, situations. Stay off brakes as you cross the adverse road condition. Go back to that area or that type of area and practice.
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Nov 11th 2018, 12:12 PM   #9
 MikeMikeMike's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Seattle

With the car braking hard and the guy in front of you going down, it was probably unavoidable at that speed. With the last 3 words being the key to the situation. But the good news is nobody looked badly hurt and the bike looks very easy to fix. I'd just say establish a safer pace around cars and gravel.
Nov 11th 2018, 01:16 PM   #10
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

I have to ask if that's the first time you've ridden that road? Because the pavement ending isn't something you'd want to forget about, never mind not noticing the sign. And if it is, "don't ride fast on a road you don't know" might be a qualified answer here.
Nov 11th 2018, 03:39 PM   #11
 coastrider's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon Coast

  2017 BMW R1200RT
Note1: No criticism of riding style or ability intended. I don't claim to be a talented rider and won't claim I would have avoided the crash.

Note2: I am not an expert in accident reconstruction. Having measurements and knowing your bike performance better information could be given.

Note3: The speeds I list are based on your speedometer. To make a readable display the digits are probably updated at some fixed interval meaning that as you were slowing down your speed could have been slightly slower than indicated, though still probably above what is seen in the next frame of the sequence.

I made some frame grabs. Posted here resized to 800 pixels. Speedometer is easier to read in the full size images. Large images here as a sequence of frame grabs: 2018 Salem CBR Gravel

Quick answer: Had you had advance warning that there was a "Pavement Ends" sign, and known that when you saw it you had to brake hard coming to a complete stop, and had you spotted the sign as soon as it came into view you had sufficient distance to stop. It looks as if you decided to go to the right around bike that went down. Had you bled off a bit more speed and gotten far left while still on pavement you might have gotten around the bike that was down. Of course you are counting on the bike that went down not skidding farther left and also an oncoming car not arriving.

01 - 57 MPH and the "Pavement Ends" sign comes into view.


02 - 60 MPH - coming out of corner speed increases - brake light is on in front of you


03 - 62 MPH - as you approached the "Pavement Ends" sign you are slightly increasing speed


04 - 59 MPH - starting to slow


05 - 56 MPH


06 - 49 MPH


07 - 45 MPH


08 - 41 MPH


09 - 38 MPH


10 - 32 MPH


11 - 29 MPH


12 - 25 MPH


13 - 25 MPH - bike still on pavement appears to be leaning a bit to right as if going right of downed rider


14 - edge of gravel


15 - appears to be coming off bike
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Nov 11th 2018, 05:46 PM   #12
 cgt1229's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Bellingham

  Suzuki
1st guy missed pavement ending sign, thus caught out by gravel. Not a big deal upright, but once a brake is applied, things change.
2nd guy (you?) had visual on guy down, target fixation, thus leading to 100% attention being directed at fallen friend and no time for you to react. Seems like a minor scuff incident with lessons to be learned.

Wobblying wheelie at 70-80 mph with crossed up touch down and oncoming vehicles might be a worse scenario.

Think just reading video comments, good/bad is what the motive is for posting. No?
Nov 11th 2018, 05:50 PM   #13
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2007 Aprilia Tuono Factory, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
Salem guy or whoever was on the white CBR... as evidenced by the excellent frame shots: IMHO, 1) you should have been able to negotiate the gravel at 25 mph. 2), to go back a bit, seeing the sign as exiting the corner, should have at least rolled off the throttle and covered the front brake lever. At the very least be covering and using the rear brake to stabilize the chassis. 3) be aware of distance between first bike that went down and your bike, distance was sufficient IMHO to warn you of slowing speed ahead. Scan the horizon to determine if a vehicle was approaching from opposite direction so as to find an escape route. Always have an escape route in the back of your mind. Things happen quickly, even at 29 mph, so lesson the pressure on the bars, smooth your inputs, relax, look where you want to go and let the bike go where it wants. Easy to say as an armchair QB, but i've been down in gravel corners, and learned lessons that saved me from other oh-shit moments later on.

In riders defense, seems to me that the sign was right on top of the pavement/gravel line. That sign and others, should have been at least a mile before the separation, with further notices at half a mile, and quarter mile. That is irresponsible signage by ODOT and local municipalities. Hold them accountable when/if filing insurance papers. Take photos. Don't use these frame freezes due to visible speeds on dash's.

No one was hurt, that is good. Have a rider meeting once in awhile. Carry a small first aid kit. I know this kind of kills the spontaneity, but so be it. Discuss spacing, signals, brake light usage, does everyone know one another? I saw a bike that was down on HP compared to the other bikes. Is that bike's rider riding over his head? Ask about road construction or repair. Communicate communicate communicate. It aint no fun goin down when out havin fun. The goal is no one hurt, and no one gets popped by the po-po. Re-iterate before leaving on ride. Some guys don't mind going down, it's a street cred thing, but coming home in the same condition as when you left is where it's at. Next time, y'all might not be so lucky. It's a numbers game, and it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Be smart. Ride smart. It's ok to ride fast, but pick your spots. Listen to that little voice inside your head. It is rarely wrong, and nobody has died (that I know of), from slowing down and riding cautiously. You can catch up with your buddies later. I've been on group rides where I've done just that only to catch up to the group standing over 2 bikes that have gone down. Take it easy out there, y'all...
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Nov 12th 2018, 08:13 AM   #14
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Quote:
Originally Posted by craiger
In riders defense, seems to me that the sign was right on top of the pavement/gravel line. That sign and others, should have been at least a mile before the separation, with further notices at half a mile, and quarter mile. That is irresponsible signage by ODOT and local municipalities. Hold them accountable when/if filing insurance papers. Take photos. Don't use these frame freezes due to visible speeds on dash's.
I saw no speed limit signs in the vid, whether on purpose or not, but I am pretty sure it is not 60. There is not enough un-cut vid to see if there are any other 'pavement ends' signs, but that one seen would be plenty far ahead (1/8 mile?) of the end as far as warnings go at the slower speed that I am sure is the speed limit there. Pretty sure I know where that spot is.
Could it have been avoided? Sure. Slow down. Ride responsibly. But you know that already.
Nov 12th 2018, 09:55 AM   #15
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  gsxr600 gsxr750 gsxr1000 i like gsxrs
Never mind if your riding speeds were appropriate, i would suggest getting a decent 250-450 dirtbike for a summer or winter, just some basic off road skills would have avoided that, salemcbr was tucking the front even before the full on gravel. adding throttle will get you thru the bad stuff more often than adding brakes.
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