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Nov 16th 2017, 08:03 AM   #46
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
I mean obviously we hear you rolling-off in the video & we can't see whether or not you're grabbing some front...but the bike comes up either way...either from reduced rear wheel forward inertia...braking...or whatever...

And then I'm totally rooting for you to save it...shit...you almost made the other part of the road...I think you hit like some natural speedbump/root/limb or something otherwise I think you would've made it out...God you must have been less than 20 feet away from good asphalt...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95
Maybe some dirt riding experience could have helped? See the result of last weeks MotoGP when Marc and Dovi each went off into the gravel (legal). Marc rides dirt a lot and stayed up.
Agreed. I did nearly make it on my off road path, I never should have been there. I remember waiting for the bike to start to lean left so I could throttle out. I should have MADE it go left by trail braking or counter steering. Also, when I get into the dirt i dont use my front brake, which is good. I could have used rear brake.
Nov 16th 2017, 06:04 PM   #47
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalemCBR
Agreed. I did nearly make it on my off road path, I never should have been there. I remember waiting for the bike to start to lean left so I could throttle out. I should have MADE it go left by trail braking or counter steering. Also, when I get into the dirt i dont use my front brake, which is good. I could have used rear brake.
Here's the thing...once you're in the dirt its a different ball game. So the lean and such is not going to have much net effect. You can trail with the rear to slow...hilariously you were actually moving past one of the guys on the road when you were in the dirt...the trick is to slow your forward progress as much as you can while finding the path of least resistance back to the road...never give up on the bike...believe me...if you're still on two wheels you're still actually "riding" the bike...no matter how bad it seems...and don't stop riding the motorcycle...a lot of these types of crashes happen because the rider mentally says "Oh, I've crashed"...and then they actually crash...please don't misunderstand me...I'm NOT saying me or anyone in this entire forum could have saved it...and your outcome (you still have a working spinal column...and no traumatic brain injury)...is pretty damn good!...so...your skill level and your gear served you pretty well...
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Edited by ShootPDX on Nov 16th 2017 at 06:06 PM
Nov 16th 2017, 06:19 PM   #48
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Here's the thing...once you're in the dirt its a different ball game. So the lean and such is not going to have much net effect. You can trail with the rear to slow...hilariously you were actually moving past one of the guys on the road when you were in the dirt...the trick is to slow your forward progress as much as you can while finding the path of least resistance back to the road...never give up on the bike...believe me...if you're still on two wheels you're still actually "riding" the bike...no matter how bad it seems...and don't stop riding the motorcycle...a lot of these types of crashes happen because the rider mentally says "Oh, I've crashed"...and then they actually crash...please don't misunderstand me...I'm NOT saying me or anyone in this entire forum could have saved it...and your outcome (you still have a working spinal column...and no traumatic brain injury)...is pretty damn good!...so...your skill level and your gear served you pretty well...
Smart stuff you said there. I have ridden o the dirt a couple times and I certainly don't know what I am doing there. Lots of good lessons.
Fallingsand likes this.
Nov 17th 2017, 08:39 PM   #49
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  rc51 Aprilia rsv
Iíve watched the wreck 4 times and canít seem to figure out how that happened?
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Nov 17th 2017, 10:37 PM   #50
 That One Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

I'm glad you're OK, and glad you are looking to learn from it and not blaming the illegal gravel, cage driver using his brakes normally or ketchup.
Nov 18th 2017, 07:50 AM   #51
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by unicykle
Iíve watched the wreck 4 times and canít seem to figure out how that happened?
I used to be a pilot. In the airplane world we would call that wreck CFIT.

Just saying. It happens to everyone.

Nov 18th 2017, 10:54 AM   #52
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by unicykle
Iíve watched the wreck 4 times and canít seem to figure out how that happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
I used to be a pilot. In the airplane world we would call that wreck CFIT.

Just saying. It happens to everyone.

Started to go wide, looked wide, went wide. Opposed to recognizing I was going wide, applying Trail braking and counter steering, or just applying counter steering and committing to the corner.
Nov 22nd 2017, 11:36 PM   #53
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalemCBR
Started to go wide, looked wide, went wide. Opposed to recognizing I was going wide, applying Trail braking and counter steering, or just applying counter steering and committing to the corner.
Almost got it...trailing is only for entering the corner hot (on purpose)...once the bike is already up like as shown in the video...it has got to be just steering and/or opening the throttle to get you back on your line...I know giving it gas seems counter-intuitive...braking is not going to get you out of this...unless you can find a way to get her fully stopped before you leave the asphalt...

Think of it this way...if you want the bike to go somewhere that it's not already headed...the throttle and the bars are your only tools...brakes will help make the crash slower...but...if you want to escape the situation...they ain't gonna help...

I think I kind of misspoke when I used the term "trailing" for a scenario where you left the tarmac...what I meant was...when you are already in the dirt...brake as much as you can without losing it (use more rear than front)...then find your way back to the road...
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Edited by ShootPDX on Nov 22nd 2017 at 11:47 PM
Nov 22nd 2017, 11:47 PM   #54
 SalemCBR's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Cbr600rr and cbr1000rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Almost got it...trailing is only for entering the corner hot (on purpose)...once the bike is already up like as shown in the video...it has got to be just steering and/or opening the throttle to get you back on your line...I know giving it gas seems counter-intuitive...braking is not going to get you out of this...unless you can find a way to get her fully stopped before you leave the asphalt...

Think of it this way...if you want the bike to go somewhere that it's not already headed...the throttle and the bars are your only tools...brakes will help make the crash slower...but...if you want to escape the situation...they ain't gonna help...
Well said. In this situation I had plenty of room to apply slight throttle and counter steering and stay in this.
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Nov 22nd 2017, 11:53 PM   #55
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
This video is as boring as your uncle's Thanksgiving stories...but...

...the guy is fast as snot...

https://youtu.be/-hzkmqMv5FM
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Nov 23rd 2017, 08:15 AM   #56
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  rc51 Aprilia rsv
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Almost got it...trailing is only for entering the corner hot (on purpose)...once the bike is already up like as shown in the video...it has got to be just steering and/or opening the throttle to get you back on your line...I know giving it gas seems counter-intuitive...braking is not going to get you out of this...unless you can find a way to get her fully stopped before you leave the asphalt...

Think of it this way...if you want the bike to go somewhere that it's not already headed...the throttle and the bars are your only tools...brakes will help make the crash slower...but...if you want to escape the situation...they ain't gonna help...

I think I kind of misspoke when I used the term "trailing" for a scenario where you left the tarmac...what I meant was...when you are already in the dirt...brake as much as you can without losing it (use more rear than front)...then find your way back to the road...
The throttle and bars are not the only way to steer, you body is 1/3 the weight and is moveable ballast, people donít move enough on the bikes I use the bars as a last resort to steer or if itís all gone bad or Iím going from full lean left to full lean right, get your ass off the seat or at least one cheek and get your head down by the inside mirror and the bikes steer themselves.
Nov 23rd 2017, 09:06 AM   #57
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

You're still using the bars, even if you're not consciously aware of it. Try your hang off on a bike with locked bars and see what happens (some of the track schools have those bikes).
Nov 23rd 2017, 09:49 AM   #58
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  rc51 Aprilia rsv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralgha
You're still using the bars, even if you're not consciously aware of it. Try your hang off on a bike with locked bars and see what happens (some of the track schools have those bikes).
I agree the bars move but I take special care to keep my arm light I even flap my elbows now and then at the apex to make sure I donít have too much weight on them I donít want bumps or head shakes To influence my body weight. With the bike on stands I practice moving from side to side with my hands in the air keeping my butt touching the seat but no weight on it just inside peg and my outside thigh to the tank, fantastic core workout.
Nov 23rd 2017, 09:50 AM   #59
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by unicykle
The throttle and bars are not the only way to steer, you body is 1/3 the weight and is moveable ballast, people donít move enough on the bikes I use the bars as a last resort to steer or if itís all gone bad or Iím going from full lean left to full lean right, get your ass off the seat or at least one cheek and get your head down by the inside mirror and the bikes steer themselves.
Well, I have a ton of good news for you! You're already fast...once you start consciously steering the bike with bar pressure...you're going to be wicked-fast...plus...as a bonus...you'll get to choose the perfect line through each corner by...well...steering the motorcycle... You'll ride with confidence once the bars are used as a method of "first resort"...your blood pressure and adrenals will drop about 100 points...you'll be a cold blooded killer on the RC...just need the samurai swords...
Nov 23rd 2017, 10:38 AM   #60
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  rc51 Aprilia rsv
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Well, I have a ton of good news for you! You're already fast...once you start consciously steering the bike with bar pressure...you're going to be wicked-fast...plus...as a bonus...you'll get to choose the perfect line through each corner by...well...steering the motorcycle... You'll ride with confidence once the bars are used as a method of "first resort"...your blood pressure and adrenals will drop about 100 points...you'll be a cold blooded killer on the RC...just need the samurai swords...

The reason I resist bar pressure to steer is it ads lean angle which reduces mechanical grip , hanging my weight off the bike letís me go around the same corner at the same speed With less lean angle
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