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Jan 24th 2018, 06:37 AM   #1
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
RObo Cars and Human RIders

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/23/1...-crash-lawsuit

Looks like the robocar began a lane change and then changed its mind and did a reversy. the rider had seen the lane change begin, moved into the still-opening hole, and was surprised when the car came back into what was now the riders lane.

a few points of leverage in this story - when is a lane change a lane change?, how do robocars fuck up the absolutely common practice we all engage in of predicting other drivers behaviors (mostly we do that very well, which is why we, as riders, are mostly all alive), and, since bigass corporations will be, for the foreseeable future, defending their robocars in court (with all of their resources brought to bear at high speed because they feel they have the entire robocar future at stake with each case) we have an asymmetry in the justice system (which is not new) where corporate money can overwhelm any claimant no matter the merits of the case).

we are going to have to ride among these automotive Frankenstein bastards, and so we have to learn how to adapt to corporate takeover of our roads. as ever, it is the humans who will have to change, as the corporate robocars are going to steamroller their way through the legal system and the highways at the same time.

what do you think? i mean, maybe not just about the details of this event, but overall, about robocars and corporate "drivers".



maybe this is the answer?

Maybe we "ride" with VR glasses, looking out through Motobot "eyes" with haptic feedback, while sitting at home on the couch like Ready Player One.

the only riding future possible? open-carry roof-racing anyone?



or maybe we cede the roads to the robots altogether and just stay home? save lots of money on insurance and hamburgers.

lots of change happening.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/23/1...-investigation


Edited by Sentinel on Jan 24th 2018 at 07:03 AM
Jan 24th 2018, 06:55 AM   #2
 Wrench's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  West Richland, WA

It's the G's and adrenaline rush that do it for me on a bike (or maybe the bugs in my teeth? j/k). VR glasses just wont cut it. It would be like playing a video game, which has very little thrill to me compared to actually riding.
Jan 24th 2018, 08:55 AM   #3
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  rc51 Aprilia rsv
Hopeing for a out of court settlement he can retire on
Jan 24th 2018, 08:58 AM   #4
 coastrider's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon Coast

  2017 BMW R1200RT
From the article:
"When the car started to change into a left lane, it abruptly returned to the initial lane and collided with Nilsson..."

My take is that the car STARTED but did not COMPLETE the lane change. I think the car owns the lane until it completes the lane change.

More from the article:
"The automaker reported the Bolt, operating in autonomous mode in heavy traffic, stopped a requested lane change from the center lane to the left lane because a vehicle decelerated and the gap was deemed too small than initially thought. While the Bolt was trying to center itself in the initial lane again when Nilsson, “wobbled and fell over,” while trying to lane split. ... GM reported the Bolt was traveling at 12 mph at the time of the collision, while Nilsson was going faster than the flow of traffic at approximately 17 mph. The report also states Nilsson got up and moved his Honda motorcycle to the side of the street to exchange information with the vehicle operator, complained of shoulder pain and was taken to get medical care."

I have no doubt that there will be accidents with self driving cars. Right now about 10,000 people are killed in alcohol related motor vehicle accidents each year. The injury count is far higher. I hope when people voice concern over those accidents that do happen with self driving cars they consider the number of drunk, texting, and otherwise impaired accidents that will not happen.

As a motorcycle rider I would much rather be on a street surrounded by self driving cars than the the current number of people drunk, stoned, texting, etc.
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Jan 24th 2018, 09:04 AM   #5
 MotoDan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Olympia

  2014 KTM 690 / BMW R1150 GS
Who says our gas powered motorcycles will be allowed on the road with these new high tech self driving, electric no steering wheel, no pedal vehicles? Becareful what you wish for. The plan is for all vehicles to be on the same sheet of music.
Sentinel likes this.
Jan 24th 2018, 09:12 AM   #6
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
This all part of the "Target Zero" policies being enacted around the world. The goal of "Target Zero" is to eliminate traffic deaths and serious injuries by 2030. The only conceivable way to do that is to eliminate all risks on the road, and therefore eliminate humans from the equation of controlling transportation.

As I have said elsewhere, motorcycle riding is inherently risky, which runs contrary to the goal of "Target Zero" policies. Therefore, it is fair to assume that eliminating motorcycles will eventually be part of the process.

Welcome to the global Nanny State.

Sent via SM-G950U
Jan 24th 2018, 09:30 AM   #7
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastrider
As a motorcycle rider I would much rather be on a street surrounded by self driving cars than the the current number of people drunk, stoned, texting, etc.
I think the mixture of people and robocars is hopelessly fucked.

If it were all robocars driving amid human motorcyclists, we could work with that.

but with a mixture we will have two divergent car-driving styles to deal with.

For example, robocars will be prefect law abiders, and will do full stops at all stop signs, and will always (i assume) stay within the speed limits; pissing everyone off.

aside: will all robocars stay in the right lane since they do not exceed the posted limits? or will they cruise the "fast lane" at 55 and fuck everything up?
Jan 24th 2018, 04:01 PM   #8
 HalcyonSon's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Renton

I'm all for super-law-abiding robo cars shuttling the drunk / high / overwhelmed / ancient / over-entertained / too-busy-to-drive around. I just dread the day when those of us that actually enjoy driving are forced to make a choice between being shuttled around like incompetents or breaking the law every time we step out the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
aside: will all robocars stay in the right lane since they do not exceed the posted limits? or will they cruise the "fast lane" at 55 and fuck everything up?
More likely, the rest of us will lose another lane on the highway to yet another exclusive use lane. "Robo-only" will join Bus, HOV, and "Fast Pass/express" lanes.
Jan 24th 2018, 05:07 PM   #9
 Naza's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Rent'n

  2002 Honda RC51, 2005 Honda RC51
Veering back <- see what I did there - on the lane-change topic.

I did the move that the motobiker did ONCE and almost got bit on 405. In my case the car was moving from HOV to right and I twisted the throttle a bit more to zip up and someone from the far right lane decided to go left and occupy the same space.

the car in front of me swerved back in "our" lane, but I had already seen the far right driver action and promptly laid off the throttle and braked to get back.

After that interaction, I wait for the car to be completely over and I give a two-three Mississippi before I get on the gas to move forward.
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Jan 25th 2018, 05:21 AM   #10
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
aside: will all robocars stay in the right lane since they do not exceed the posted limits? or will they cruise the "fast lane" at 55 and fuck everything up?
I think that robocars can be more easily programmed to "move right except to pass" than the majority of people I drive with daily.
Sentinel likes this.
Jan 25th 2018, 06:27 AM   #11
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95
I think that robocars can be more easily programmed to "move right except to pass" than the majority of people I drive with daily.
It seems likely that all robocars will net themselves together, eventually, and so passing will probably not occur. Best case is a netted grid where optimal flow, for the entire net, will be the priority.

This will of course require human-driven vehicles to GTFO, and so, yeah, pretty soon they are going to preclude us from driving at all. Until then, yep, there are going to be ROBO ONLY lanes.

Just like with making gun shooting more and more inconvenient, they will legislate human-driving out of existence by making it inconvenient and expensive.

Also, as the pool of drivers is reduced insurance rates are going to go up up up.

Same as it ever was.
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Jan 25th 2018, 07:48 AM   #12
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
This all part of the "Target Zero" policies being enacted around the world. The goal of "Target Zero" is to eliminate traffic deaths and serious injuries by 2030. The only conceivable way to do that is to eliminate all risks on the road, and therefore eliminate humans from the equation of controlling transportation.

As I have said elsewhere, motorcycle riding is inherently risky, which runs contrary to the goal of "Target Zero" policies. Therefore, it is fair to assume that eliminating motorcycles will eventually be part of the process.

Welcome to the global Nanny State.

Sent via SM-G950U
And for that reason, along with many others, I make sure that I am always in the room when the stakeholders assemble to review the plans.
Parilla125 likes this.
Jan 25th 2018, 12:44 PM   #13
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

That lane is still the car's until it's all the way out, moving up before it's out of the lane is asking for trouble. I'm very leery of self driving technology, but I have to chalk this one up to the rider.
Jan 25th 2018, 04:12 PM   #14
 
  Jul 2016
  tigard

  2013 Ninja 1000
Assuming Prius drivers will be early adopters of robo-cars I think that'll cut way down on the hoonigan factor we have to deal with. Plus 1 for robo-cars.
Jan 25th 2018, 05:08 PM   #15
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl
And for that reason, along with many others, I make sure that I am always in the room when the stakeholders assemble to review the plans.
Thank you for doing that.
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