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Jun 14th 2019, 07:01 AM   #16
 Akdawg's Avatar
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
I believe ABATE of Washington will be running the "weight fee reduction bill" again this fall. I'll post it here if it comes up but it will need voter support(you- us) to get it passed. Roughly 220,000 registered motorcycles in the state at $25 a pop comes to $5.5M. Legislators aren't going to let that kind of revenue slip out of their greedy fingers without a fight. Even if the bill is modified to use the money for motorcycle safety or education or something M/C other than ??? to make it a bit more palatable?
Flyboymedic likes this.
Jun 14th 2019, 11:01 AM   #17
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy

Not trying to pick a fight, but why is an income tax so much better that a sales tax?
My understanding is income tax becomes a more equal taxation.

Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income.

The lower income will probably spend ALL of that $40k to stay afloat and lets say it is all spent on items that have sales tax. Then let's say the $100k/yr income only spends $70k/yr to start afloat on items that have a sales tax while saving the rest.

$40k x 10% = $4000 tax burden at 10% of total income.
$70k x 10% = $7000 tax burden at 7% of total income.

The more you make =/= the more you spend/pay taxes on.

Income tax would be everyone pays 10% on what they make.

Makes an unequal systems where the less money you make the more you pay in taxes proportionally.

But hey, that is up to each state to come up with their own incentives to get people to move in and increase the tax revenue.
Jun 14th 2019, 05:40 PM   #18
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  2009 V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
My understanding is income tax becomes a more equal taxation.

Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income.

The lower income will probably spend ALL of that $40k to stay afloat and lets say it is all spent on items that have sales tax. Then let's say the $100k/yr income only spends $70k/yr to start afloat on items that have a sales tax while saving the rest.

$40k x 10% = $4000 tax burden at 10% of total income.
$70k x 10% = $7000 tax burden at 7% of total income.

The more you make =/= the more you spend/pay taxes on.

Income tax would be everyone pays 10% on what they make.

Makes an unequal systems where the less money you make the more you pay in taxes proportionally.

But hey, that is up to each state to come up with their own incentives to get people to move in and increase the tax revenue.
That's a great example but it ignores some basics of reality, here's a couple of them:
  • The more money you have, the more expensive the items you purchase. For example, the 40k person shops at WalMart for the $10.00 jeans while the 100k person shops a Nordstrom for the $100.00 jeans.
  • Income tax is always graduated. Using the 2019 single tax schedule (without deductions):
    • The 40k person will pay 4,658.50 for federal income tax (11.6% of income).
    • The 100k person will pay 18,174.50 (18.1% of income).

If a stranger demands some of your money or nasty things will be done to you, it's called robbery. If the government does the same basic thing, it's called tax collection.

Don't steal! The Government hates the competition....
Jun 14th 2019, 08:25 PM   #19
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

That is why I said $40k and $70k not $40k and $40k. I made that assumption.

Income tax wouldn't need to be tiered. I can be and is in some cases.

Regressive vs progressive.
Jun 14th 2019, 09:09 PM   #20
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S, Suzuki VStrom 650, Yamaha Radian, MZ 125SM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curve addict
Here in King County, specifically Des Moines, a new tag for a 1987 Yamaha FZR1000 cost me just under $110. Of that, the cut for Des Moines alone was $40.

That is one of the few things that I miss about living in Arizona. Tags for the same bike cost $18.
Dave, that bike qualifies for a collector plate ya know....
I have one on my 86 Yamaha Radian.
Jun 15th 2019, 08:35 AM   #21
 
  Apr 2016
  Bellingham

  K12RS, KTM 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
No, we are smart to vote them down because they always presented without a reduction in the regressive taxes. We don't need more taxes to feed another army of useless bureaucrats, we need a government that uses our tax money well, and to replace the regressive taxes with income taxes.
Unfortunately there will be no "REPLACE" if an income tax should become a reality.
I would much rather have usage taxes over income tax.
VeritasImageryNW likes this.
Jun 15th 2019, 10:26 AM   #22
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adashi
Unfortunately there will be no "REPLACE" if an income tax should become a reality.
I would much rather have usage taxes over income tax.
Exactly, only a naive person would think that by implementing an income tax they would eliminate the sales tax. The same goes for the proposed mileage tax, it would be an additional tax to the fuel tax. The government isn't going balance out what they take, just supplement and add to it.
Jun 17th 2019, 07:34 AM   #23
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
My understanding is income tax becomes a more equal taxation.

Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income.

The lower income will probably spend ALL of that $40k to stay afloat and lets say it is all spent on items that have sales tax. Then let's say the $100k/yr income only spends $70k/yr to start afloat on items that have a sales tax while saving the rest.
I disagree with assumption that the lower income person pays all of their income on taxed items.

Let's assume they are renters. Not sure what rent is like on the west side, but in my area they range from $750 for a 2 bdrm place with teenagers for neighbors up to $1400 for a newer building with a little higher class of neighbor. So lets say rent is going to be around 1100 for a middle of the road place.

Since rent has no sales tax, you can deduct $13200 from the income they would pay sales tax on, leaving us $26800.

Now we can deduct the money they spend on groceries. If they are single and eat ramen noodles 3 times a day, seven days a week we can deduct another $7 dollars a year. How ever most single folks would most likely spend $75 a week on food (I think since it has been 37 years since I was single!). If they have a family you are looking at closer to 150 a week. Again lets pull a middle of the road figure, $100 a week. Now we deduct another $5200, leaving $21600 that they would have to spend on clothing, vehicles and other taxed items. In the Tri Cities our sales tax rate is 8.1%, in this example $1749 would be spent filling the state coffers.

We cannot discuss specifics because we have no real numbers to work with. We have not even begun to account for federal taxes, property taxes, gas tax, school levy, and on and on and on.

I personally don't mind a consumption tax. If I don't consume, I don't pay.

I think most agree that if an income tax is implemented in Washington, other taxes will not go away. This last legislative session proved to me that our legislators and governor will find new and creative ways to tax the shit out of us. Regardless of what type of taxes they implement, they will never have enough.
FireDave likes this.

Edited by Bald Guy on Jun 17th 2019 at 05:30 PM
Jun 17th 2019, 04:45 PM   #24
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  2009 V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
That is why I said $40k and $70k not $40k and $40k. I made that assumption.

Income tax wouldn't need to be tiered. I can be and is in some cases.

Regressive vs progressive.
"Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income."

Where do they have a flat rate income tax (everyone pays same %)? Every time it's suggested the liberal (not the old school type), go crazy and claim it's unequal as it forces low income people to pay the same as the richer people.
Jun 17th 2019, 06:02 PM   #25
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
"Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income."

Where do they have a flat rate income tax (everyone pays same %)? Every time it's suggested the liberal (not the old school type), go crazy and claim it's unequal as it forces low income people to pay the same as the richer people.

Well they currently pay more than the rich so....

Just to be clear I am not for state income tax as others have pointed out it will be in addition to sales tax here in WA.
Jun 17th 2019, 06:45 PM   #26
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
States with income taxes . . .
States with sales taxes . . .
States with property taxes.

I'm positive none have a monopoly on residents who bitch about their taxes.

Washington State, relative to other states:
Very near median on taxes for both businesses and individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
"Example, $40k/yr income vs $100k/yr income."

Where do they have a flat rate income tax (everyone pays same %)? Every time it's suggested the liberal (not the old school type), go crazy and claim it's unequal as it forces low income people to pay the same as the richer people.
Chrishil54: Try to leave out the sweeping statements and political-party insults. There are many reasons why a flat-rate-income-tax hasn't been implemented anywhere in the US, including some very conservative states. Has nothing to do with liberal or conservative; it a bad idea, and a boringly repetitive topic for people who can't comprehend why a comprehensive fiscal policy (including a complex tax code) cannot be explained on a bumper sticker.

On paper, eight states have "flat rate income taxes." Meaning the tax rate itself is not progressive. However, all eight states include income-based tax credits, exceptions and/or deductions, similar to the feds, which effectively ends (before it even starts) the simplistic idea of "why doesn't everybody just pay the same rate?"
Further, each of these 8 states have a variety of other tax-types on individuals, including MV registration fees, property and sales taxes.

I've been to five of eight of these states, and I'm sure I heard some tax-bitching ;-)

My point is this: It's never been simple, never will be. Complaining about taxes? It's beautiful day outside.

Edited by FireDave on Jun 18th 2019 at 09:52 AM
Jun 18th 2019, 02:17 PM   #27
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
States with income taxes . . .
States with sales taxes . . .
States with property taxes.

I'm positive none have a monopoly on residents who bitch about their taxes.

Washington State, relative to other states:
Very near median on taxes for both businesses and individuals.



Chrishil54: Try to leave out the sweeping statements and political-party insults. There are many reasons why a flat-rate-income-tax hasn't been implemented anywhere in the US, including some very conservative states. Has nothing to do with liberal or conservative; it a bad idea, and a boringly repetitive topic for people who can't comprehend why a comprehensive fiscal policy (including a complex tax code) cannot be explained on a bumper sticker.

On paper, eight states have "flat rate income taxes." Meaning the tax rate itself is not progressive. However, all eight states include income-based tax credits, exceptions and/or deductions, similar to the feds, which effectively ends (before it even starts) the simplistic idea of "why doesn't everybody just pay the same rate?"
Further, each of these 8 states have a variety of other tax-types on individuals, including MV registration fees, property and sales taxes.

I've been to five of eight of these states, and I'm sure I heard some tax-bitching ;-)

My point is this: It's never been simple, never will be. Complaining about taxes? It's beautiful day outside.
Some states, however, are much more efficient with using their taxes for common good rather than for feeding an army of bureaucrats.

But you will never hear bureaucrats complaining about that, only about insufficient tax rates.
Jun 18th 2019, 05:07 PM   #28
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  2009 V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
States with income taxes . . .
States with sales taxes . . .
States with property taxes.

I'm positive none have a monopoly on residents who bitch about their taxes.

Washington State, relative to other states:
Very near median on taxes for both businesses and individuals.



Chrishil54: Try to leave out the sweeping statements and political-party insults. There are many reasons why a flat-rate-income-tax hasn't been implemented anywhere in the US, including some very conservative states. Has nothing to do with liberal or conservative; it a bad idea, and a boringly repetitive topic for people who can't comprehend why a comprehensive fiscal policy (including a complex tax code) cannot be explained on a bumper sticker.

On paper, eight states have "flat rate income taxes." Meaning the tax rate itself is not progressive. However, all eight states include income-based tax credits, exceptions and/or deductions, similar to the feds, which effectively ends (before it even starts) the simplistic idea of "why doesn't everybody just pay the same rate?"
Further, each of these 8 states have a variety of other tax-types on individuals, including MV registration fees, property and sales taxes.

I've been to five of eight of these states, and I'm sure I heard some tax-bitching ;-)

My point is this: It's never been simple, never will be. Complaining about taxes? It's beautiful day outside.
Where did I mention political party?

You mentioned eight states have a flat rate income tax? Name them please.

You are correct, the solution is complex but it's complex because we ask the same people that perpetuated the problems to solve them. They have zero interest in a solution as they profit from the broken system.
liberpolly likes this.
Jun 18th 2019, 05:57 PM   #29
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
Where did I mention political party?
Probably referring to this: "Every time it's suggested the liberal (not the old school type), go crazy..."

In today's world Liberal is equal to "Democrat". Personally it seems more like Liberal equals "easily offended".
Chrishil54 likes this.
Jun 18th 2019, 05:58 PM   #30
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
Where did I mention political party?

You mentioned eight states have a flat rate income tax? Name them please.

You are correct, the solution is complex but it's complex because we ask the same people that perpetuated the problems to solve them. They have zero interest in a solution as they profit from the broken system.
Yea, I'm sure when you wrote 'liberal' you meant republicans. Try not to play stupid . . . it makes you look stupid.

And look it up yourself. That way you'll KNOW, instead of taking some 'crazy liberal's' word for it. A google search would have required fewer keystrokes than you asking the question of me. Which tells me your in it for some form of argumentative gratification, and not actually learning something.

And JFC, does your (and others here) brand of factless paranoia and reflexive cynicism get old fast. You all sound like a bunch of ignorant and grumpy old men, without the wisdom.

Here's a tip: When you complain yet again about taxes, or spew your anti-gov't views, you might as well shout from the rooftops "I'm a boring idiot without creativity or education." Res ipsa loquitur.

Another tip: If people (you agree with) tell you you're having an informed and respectful discussion, ignore them. Then find someone with whom you disagree, ask them the same. If you asked me, I'd tell you to learn more about fiscal policy, the nature of the tax-policy and opposition in other states and countries, travel more than a little bit, then display such wisdom in a manner that would elicit an "I'm glad you brought that up" instead of "JFC, not this ignorant shit again."
PeteN95 and liberpolly like this.

Edited by FireDave on Jun 18th 2019 at 06:19 PM
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