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Feb 1st 2018, 12:28 PM   #46
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Harley, American iron (made in Thailand...).
all of their "custom" chrome and other add on bits are made in China so not a lot new news there...if it wasn't for clothing they's be losing even more money...

Edited by chadams66 on Feb 2nd 2018 at 11:39 AM
Feb 2nd 2018, 07:52 AM   #47
 alienbogey's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Gig Harbor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
[B]
Yeah, and it only goes like fucking 40 miles!!!!! For fucks sake!!!

https://www.theverge.com/2014/6/24/5...ric-motorcycle

no.thanks.
I can't wait to see what they come up with, and I'll be standing in line for a demo ride.

The Livewire was introduced in 2014 and was a test platform and marketing research vehicle and its range was adequate for those purposes. Do you really think the electric 2019 Harley Whatever-Its-Called is going to have a 40 mile range?

The original Nissan Leaf had a 111 mile range rating. The 2017 Chevy Bolt has an official 238 mile range. The 2018 Tesla Model 3 is rated at 310 miles.

(Note: I would have provided the numbers for Zero's advancement in range over the years, but couldn't easily find it.)

My points are that the Livewire was never intended for production, its 40 mile range served its purpose, and battery technology has advanced since 2014.

I'll offer an over/under bet: The new electric HD will have a range of more than 100 miles. Care to take the under?

Once the new bike and its specs are announced we'll meet, ride to a lunch spot that the winner picks, loser buys.
VeritasImageryNW likes this.
Feb 2nd 2018, 01:19 PM   #48
 Chrishil54's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

  2009 V-Star 1100 Custom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
Yeah, and it only goes like fucking 40 miles!!!!! For fucks sake!!!
How is this any different than most Harleys that go about 40 miles before something falls off?
Feb 2nd 2018, 01:48 PM   #49
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
Yeah, and it only goes like fucking 40 miles!!!!! For fucks sake!!!
well with bags and a big stereo what could you expect?
honestly without those loud pipes to save your life I don't know who Harley is expecting to sell those to...
I can see it now...ElectroRyderz MC...
Feb 2nd 2018, 06:58 PM   #50
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienbogey
tform and marketing research vehicle and its range was adequate for those purposes. Do you really think the electric 2019 Harley Whatever-Its-Called is going to have a 40 mile range?

The original Nissan Leaf had a 111 mile range rating. The 2017 Chevy Bolt has an official 238 mile range. The 2018 Tesla Model 3 is rated at 310 miles.
My Gen 1 Leaf never, not once, went 100 miles on a charge. You have to drive an electric vehicle before you can understand that they are fundamentally different from gasoline vehicles. Miles per charge is never, ever going to be meaningful because it simply cannot be stated in a relevant way. NO ONE knows how far you are going to be able to drive an EV in your environment, in the way you drive.

Even statements of kw/h battery capacity ratings do not tell a full story. Just think of laptop batteries, and how their service life evolves.

The One Big Thing about EV's is your personal "Get Home Reserve" requirement. You will never use a full charge because the cost of mis-estimating your range is so high. You cannot catch a ride to the gas station with a red can to get you there. If you fuck up one mile from home YOU HAVE TO GET TOWED. So you will always leave 20 miles in the battery, just in case, and you will never dig into that unless you are damn certain of your calculations. You might be that guy. But probably not.

I have never charged my car away from home. It has 60,000 miles. I bought it new in 2012. It's a great car, but it's a commuter scooter, and nothing else. With an EV you HAVE TO have another car (or bike).

Range variability is a function of environment (hills suck watts, and so does rain because it causes rolling resistance that you will notice) and driver technique. I always get better m/kw than my wife because i coast to stops, anticipating the lights, and i always use "ECO" mode.

That's another thing with EV range estimates: they drive uber conservatively to get the highest possible numbers. And if you buy a "performance" EV you will not. Quick acceleration SUCKS out the kw's.

Basically, driving an EV is like running around on 1/4 tank of gas, and to fill up you have to park it, at home, for 6 hours.

I would say there is NO WAY Harley is going to produce a 100 mile bike, especially with how heavy they like to make Harleys, and with all the fashion they are going to have to build-in to make it a Harley someone would want to buy.

Or not. It's a brave new world out there. That we are even talking about electric Harley-Davidson motorcycles is sci-fi shit.

Seriously. We have been talking about robots, AI's, and self-driving cars. Some rich dude is shooting rockets into space and selling flame-throwers on the internet (sold OUT) and Donald Trump is the president of the United States of AMERICA!

Literally anything could happen. Actual gray aliens could land on the Whitehouse lawn, walk through the walls into the Lincoln bedroom, and eat Donald Trump in some weird alien sandwich ritual while the secret service watched, and the whole thing was broadcast live on a twitter video stream, and we would be like, "Yup. That's about right."

So, maybe they'll do it.
liberpolly likes this.

Edited by Sentinel on Feb 3rd 2018 at 07:36 AM
Feb 2nd 2018, 07:59 PM   #51
 alienbogey's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Gig Harbor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
You have to drive an electric vehicle before you can understand that they are fundamentally different from gasoline vehicles.
I have owned and driven a Chevy Bolt EV as my primary cage since June.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
I have never charged my car away from home.
Neither have I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
I would say there is NO WAY Harley is going to produce a 100 mile bike
So, you're taking my bet?

Feb 7th 2018, 03:59 PM   #52
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
but wait there's more...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money...ail/314581002/

if it's the front brakes I doubt many would've have noticed...
Feb 7th 2018, 04:53 PM   #53
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  gsxr600 gsxr750 gsxr1000 i like gsxrs
even with a 100 mile range its just a fashion scooter as all the good roads to ride are over 100 mile round trip
Feb 7th 2018, 09:02 PM   #54
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
but wait there's more...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money...ail/314581002/

if it's the front brakes I doubt many would've have noticed...
Notice that this isn't a failure due to Harley, but improper maintenance by the bike owners.

"If the brake fluid isn’t changed every two years like the owner’s manual says it should be, a deposit can start to form on the brake components..."

https://jalopnik.com/harley-davidson...s-f-1822816209

Even the article you linked says that all of the complainants had failed to change the brake fluid in the required intervals.

Sent via SM-G950U

Edited by VeritasImageryNW on Feb 7th 2018 at 09:04 PM
Feb 7th 2018, 11:12 PM   #55
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
you might have noticed this is costing the company 29.4 million bucks for 43 complaints...no matter how you try to slice it or who you want to blame...there's no way this is good for the old bottom line that isn't doing so well in the first place...
to Thailand and Beyond...
Feb 8th 2018, 02:01 PM   #56
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Notice that this isn't a failure due to Harley, but improper maintenance by the bike owners.

"If the brake fluid isn’t changed every two years like the owner’s manual says it should be, a deposit can start to form on the brake components..."
In engineering, we call this "bad design".
chadams66 likes this.
Feb 8th 2018, 06:22 PM   #57
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
In engineering, we call this "bad design".
same problem with my Nissan Leaf. They use a hydrophilic (?) brake fluid. i thought there was a brake fluid that would NOT absorb water. don’t know why they don't use that.
Feb 10th 2018, 08:35 PM   #58
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
it's not as some would have you think about the declining motorcycle market...build a better machine and they will buy it...heck build a whole slew of better machines and they will buy them...an example of a company staying with their core riders and yet bringing the company into to the future at the same time...how do they do it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/moto...017/ar-AAuRNTQ

Feb 10th 2018, 09:04 PM   #59
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
it's not as some would have you think about the declining motorcycle market...build a better machine and they will buy it...heck build a whole slew of better machines and they will buy them...an example of a company staying with their core riders and yet bringing the company into to the future at the same time...how do they do it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/moto...017/ar-AAuRNTQ

BMW's sales increases last year were only internationally. They were included in the US decline as well.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...uggish-market/

Also important to note how small BMW's overall US sales are. Of the just over 164,000 bikes they sold overall, only a little over 13,000 of those were here in the states.

When talking about declining sales, we are talking US sales, not international sales. Even Harley was seeing sales increases overseas, especially in Great Britain.

Sent via SM-G950U

Edited by VeritasImageryNW on Feb 10th 2018 at 09:11 PM
Feb 11th 2018, 12:00 AM   #60
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver - HD 1250 Hammer Sportster w/Screaming Eagle stuff - GSXR-750 K12
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/harley-...-line-problem/

But the one with the oil line that pops off and sprays your rear tire...only 9 or 10 reported crashes...and that recall cost millions of dollars too...it was fewer vehicles...only 57,000 of the brand new ones...

Edited by ShootPDX on Feb 11th 2018 at 12:02 AM
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