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Jan 31st 2018, 12:18 PM   #31
 Tortilla Jackson's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Salem, OR

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
Two comments. Both are my opinion which you are free to ignore.

First: A lot of talk over the past few years about the decline in motorcycle popularity, the disinterest in motor vehicles (two and four wheeled) by upcoming generations, automation and the use of non-internal combustion motive power. Frankly, after more than five decades of driving and riding, I couldnít care less about upcoming generationís interest in those things that interest me. I have fun with my motorcycle. I enjoy my automobiles. I once had a mid-70ís diesel truck (and a big one at that) which probably gave environmentalists heart palpitations but I loved the sound and feel of driving a big rig. Are motorcycle sales declining? Is this brand more popular than that POS brand? I donít care. I like what Iíve got and I assume that if you donít like what you have that you will eventually get rid of it and get yourself something else that you enjoy more. Iíve had Brit, Japanese and European motorcycles, two and four stroke. Iíve enjoyed them all when I had them. I donít diss anyoneís choice of motorcycles. ďRun whatchaí brung.Ē

Second: Harley has made some great motorcycles. Theyíre not everyoneís cup of tea but, so what? Say what you will about their sales trend but there is no doubt that they have a loyal following. Most of their bike styles stay fairly close to the stereotype but they have made the occasional foray afield. More than that, there are people who use their components to make other interesting bikes, Buell being one example. Street trackers were made by Mert Lawwill, Mule Motorcycles, and Bartelís H-D. Lots of customs out there for those of you who were moaning about the XR750

You can get yourself a marketing managerís job and promote what you want. As for me, Iím happy with whatever bike (or car) that I have at the moment. I never bought it (or them) for any other reason than I liked Ďem.
Well said.
Jan 31st 2018, 12:24 PM   #32
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
but wait there's more:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harl...an-market.html

you know I heard this rumor that American jobs weren't going to be sent out of the country any more..that stuff was going to be stopped..like those jobs at Carrier...

Once again Harley is following Triumph's footsteps, albeit clumsily and slowly.
Jan 31st 2018, 12:32 PM   #33
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Again, I already spoke to this. Those manufacturers had increased sales of only a few hundred bikes. Overall that's not significant. (And as someone already linked, BMW sales actually dropped in the US last year. Might want to actually read ALL the posts).
"for financial year 2017, Triumph sold 63,404 motorcycles compared to 56,253 for the financial year of 2016. "

"The Milwaukee company reported a 7.9 percent drop to 241,498 motorcycle shipments in 2017 and expects the figure to continue dropping. It forecast 231,000 to 236,000 motorcycle shipments in 2018."

Looks fairly significant to me.

I used to work in Microsoft, doing internet safety for IE and Windows. The trend and the attitude were similar, until it reached critical mass, and within a year IE's market share fell from 85% to 17%. Heavy, bulky, slow, hard to use browser, with most bugs fixed by then but the reputation lingered sounds familiar?

Things don't happen that fast in the physical world due to inertia, but preferential cascade is the real phenomena in something so subjective as motorcycles.
Jan 31st 2018, 01:39 PM   #34
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
OK Kevin. I think we agree on most points. Yes, Harley does set the standard for customer involvement. Yes, public perception could always be more positive. As for those, and I include the media, who say that motorcycles are dangerous, they are correct. There is much WE can do to make it less dangerous and there is an equal amount that other motorists can do to make our riding safer. However, there is no denying that a collision between a motorcycle and any other vehicle (no matter how safe you are) represents a potentially painful outcome.

Personally speaking, my answers to all of the questions you have asked in your second paragraph are positive in the promotion of the hobby/sport. I think my point is that my attitude and actions speak for themselves and I don't feel the need to be proselytizing. If you are adamant about making changes, support positive legislation for our community. Join with Texasl in his efforts.

In the meantime, let's turn this thread back over to the brand bashers and market analysts. Ya' wanna arm wrestle ?
Legislation is great, but it won't go anywhere without a change in the public's perception of motorcycles and riders. Like I've said before, as long as the media, the WSP and the rest of the public view motorcyclists as reckless outlaws we will not see pro-motorcycle legislation even make it to a vote, let alone a law.

We can either sit back and enjoy our little hobby until it dies, or is killed by the "Nanny state", or we can become active proponents of it. Yes, that may mean prosthylitizing. And really, what's so wrong with that? Why wouldn't you want to share with others about something you love?

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Jan 31st 2018, 03:55 PM   #35
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
I think you have missed my point(s). Those members of the public who view riders as outlaws probably won't have their attitudes changed by any of us talking unicorns and rainbows. One or two jerkwagon morons stunting in or around others are the bane of our existence. I would suggest that you look in the mirror however, based on your comment that the WSP and "the rest of the public view motorcyclists as outlaws..." Making generalizations about LEOs and the rest of the population is as bad as assuming they do the same about us.

I am going to sit back and enjoy our little hobby. I will share my interest in it (and other things that I like) with those who show curiosity. I feel no need to fervently wave motorcycling's flag to the rest of the world. I do not fear the nanny state taking bikes away in my lifetime. I hope that I have made my point. Anything further would just be redundant.

To quote Dale Evans, "Happy trails to you, until we meet again."
Jan 31st 2018, 04:59 PM   #36
 MotoDan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Olympia

  2014 KTM 690 / BMW R1150 GS
In my opinion and others, I can see our Democrat nanny state phasing out motorcycle riding as we know it, Alot of money from the most powerful corporate players, pushing the self driving electric vehicle agenda, That removes the human element of driving .As the vehicles must communicate with eachother. The future is now. Ooopsss did I get political...
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Jan 31st 2018, 05:01 PM   #37
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
I'm not talking about individual LEOs, rather the WSP's public comments regarding motorcycles and pro-motorcycle laws. It's no different than their official stance on speed limits and front mounted license plates. Just go back and watch their spokesperson's comments regarding proposed lane splitting laws, or shoulder use laws. Irregardless of what real studies have shown, they claim that lane splitting does NOT make it safer for motorcycles. Same for shoulder use, or filtering.

The only reason Califonia managed to legalize it was because CA law enforcement understood the realities of it, and how it is a benefit to both the rider and the other drivers. Had the CHP not been on board it probably would have been a different story.

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Jan 31st 2018, 07:56 PM   #38
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
The only reason Califonia managed to legalize it was because CA law enforcement understood the realities of it, and how it is a benefit to both the rider and the other drivers. Had the CHP not been on board it probably would have been a different story.
I wonder whether it's because California cops don't get any money from ticketing riders for these offences, while Washington cops do?
Jan 31st 2018, 11:38 PM   #39
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD 1200 Sportster SE Upgrades, Custom Paint
Do you think the guys in Hamamatsu really give two squirts?...they sell the same 17 million units virtually every year...count scooters...and it's closer to 22 million...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ales-of-honda/

Harley has some issues they need to get sorted out...but...they've had the same issues over the last 12 quarters or so. One would imagine that as a public company HD CEO Matt Levatich is on fairly thin ice unless he can show significant gains against his primary competitor...Polaris Industries (Scott Wine, CEO)...which showed sales up 17% in Q4 of 2017. Virtually all of those sales came at the expense of HD.
Attached Thumbnails
Harley is FUBAR-hmc-chart.jpg  

Edited by ShootPDX on Jan 31st 2018 at 11:46 PM
Feb 1st 2018, 05:45 AM   #40
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
"Harley-Davidson’s first production electric motorcycle will debut in 2019. The ailing motorcycle giant is looking for a spark"

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/31/1...otorcycle-2019

"its range is around 55 miles in an economy mode and around 33 miles in a "power" mode. Charging time is about 3.5 hours."



"It's missing Harley's 'classic' sound."

Yeah, and it only goes like fucking 40 miles!!!!! For fucks sake!!!

https://www.theverge.com/2014/6/24/5...ric-motorcycle

no.thanks.


Edited by Sentinel on Feb 1st 2018 at 05:50 AM
Feb 1st 2018, 05:49 AM   #41
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Triumph Explorer, Concours 1400, Husqvarna Strada, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
but wait there's more:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harl...an-market.html

you know I heard this rumor that American jobs weren't going to be sent out of the country any more..that stuff was going to be stopped..like those jobs at Carrier...

They are building a plant in Thailand to avoid a 60% Thai tariff, plus gain a tax advantage when exporting to other countries that neighbor Thailand.

It's in the article.
Feb 1st 2018, 05:53 AM   #42
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
and there's gonna be a wall.










Edited by Sentinel on Feb 1st 2018 at 05:58 AM
Feb 1st 2018, 07:20 AM   #43
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
And how is that even related to the topic?

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Feb 1st 2018, 08:25 AM   #44
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
And how is that even related to the topic?

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It's a Q code. If you have to ask, it aint meant for you.

Feb 1st 2018, 09:53 AM   #45
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Harley, American iron (made in Thailand...).
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