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Jan 30th 2018, 10:18 PM   #16
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Meanwhile, sales of Triumph, Ducati, and BMW are up (not sure about KTM). How do they do that, one may wonder...
Jan 30th 2018, 11:05 PM   #17
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Two comments. Both are my opinion which you are free to ignore.

First: A lot of talk over the past few years about the decline in motorcycle popularity, the disinterest in motor vehicles (two and four wheeled) by upcoming generations, automation and the use of non-internal combustion motive power. Frankly, after more than five decades of driving and riding, I couldn’t care less about upcoming generation’s interest in those things that interest me. I have fun with my motorcycle. I enjoy my automobiles. I once had a mid-70’s diesel truck (and a big one at that) which probably gave environmentalists heart palpitations but I loved the sound and feel of driving a big rig. Are motorcycle sales declining? Is this brand more popular than that POS brand? I don’t care. I like what I’ve got and I assume that if you don’t like what you have that you will eventually get rid of it and get yourself something else that you enjoy more. I’ve had Brit, Japanese and European motorcycles, two and four stroke. I’ve enjoyed them all when I had them. I don’t diss anyone’s choice of motorcycles. “Run whatcha’ brung.”

Second: Harley has made some great motorcycles. They’re not everyone’s cup of tea but, so what? Say what you will about their sales trend but there is no doubt that they have a loyal following. Most of their bike styles stay fairly close to the stereotype but they have made the occasional foray afield. More than that, there are people who use their components to make other interesting bikes, Buell being one example. Street trackers were made by Mert Lawwill, Mule Motorcycles, and Bartel’s H-D. Lots of customs out there for those of you who were moaning about the XR750

You can get yourself a marketing manager’s job and promote what you want. As for me, I’m happy with whatever bike (or car) that I have at the moment. I never bought it (or them) for any other reason than I liked ‘em.
Tortilla Jackson likes this.

Edited by 307T on Jan 31st 2018 at 09:50 AM
Jan 30th 2018, 11:23 PM   #18
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Wasn’t Buell the Harley all the non Harley people wanted Harley to make all those years? What happened to them? Would that bike with a Harley badge have done any better?
Jan 30th 2018, 11:38 PM   #19
 galenernest's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Beijing

  Honda CBF190R
Just in the news today, HD is making an electric motorcycle which is slated to hit the market in 18 months.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...after-livewire
Jan 31st 2018, 06:53 AM   #20
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by galenernest
Just in the news today, HD is making an electric motorcycle which is slated to hit the market in 18 months.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...after-livewire
A little late to the game? I already posted that in this thread.

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Jan 31st 2018, 06:58 AM   #21
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Funny thing, all this talk about Harley's imminent demise, but looking back a few years it turns out that they sold more bikes last year than they did in 2009.

This is not the first time they have seen downward sales, same all all other manufacturers.

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Jan 31st 2018, 07:01 AM   #22
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Meanwhile, sales of Triumph, Ducati, and BMW are up (not sure about KTM). How do they do that, one may wonder...
Again, I already spoke to this. Those manufacturers had increased sales of only a few hundred bikes. Overall that's not significant. (And as someone already linked, BMW sales actually dropped in the US last year. Might want to actually read ALL the posts).

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Jan 31st 2018, 07:26 AM   #23
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
"Frankly, after more than five decades of driving and riding, I couldnít care less about upcoming generationís interest in those things that interest me."

And this comment points to a major problem within the motorcycle community. Or, what used to be a community.

If we want to see our hobby stay healthy, for ourselves as well as others, it is important for us to try to promote it to the upcoming generations. To do otherwise is shooting ourselves in the foot.

Say what you will about Harley's "lifestyle" promotion, but at least they promote the social aspect of motorcycles, unlike the Japanese manufacturers. Harley dealers are always holding events at dealerships, promoting group rides, and generally providing a place for riders to simply "hang out". Maybe it can feel rather exclusive to Harley riders, but yeah...they're Harley dealers.

But the point is that you don't get that at foreign bike dealerships. Those aren't places to just hang out and socialize. They act like they would rather you come in, but a bike, or parts, or gear and get out. "Don't bug us unless your going to buy." How many events does your local Honda, or Suzuki, dealer have? How many Yamaha dealerships have a coffee bar? How many times do you see dozens of sport bike riders gather, just to hang out? Heck, how often do you see non-Harley cruiser riders just "hang-out"?

Yes, riding motorcycles can be a very individual sport, but it can also be a very social thing. And, I believe if we were all to promote that aspect of it we might see a change in upcoming generations. But instead, we see a continuing segregation of riders. "Oh, you don't ride such and such, you're stupid." Or "Why would anyone buy that POS?" Those of you who chose to post derrogotory comments about specific manufacturers are actually part of the problem. You continue to promote the segregation, all while claiming how much you hate Harley for a segregating lifestyle. And yet, Harley is the only one out there actively promoting the social, the "brotherhoodness", aspect of motorcycling.

Who knows, maybe if more "lone wolf" attitude riders decided that socializing was also an integral part of motorcycles we might see a turn around for the entire industry.

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Jan 31st 2018, 09:49 AM   #24
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
"Frankly, after more than five decades of driving and riding, I couldnít care less about upcoming generationís interest in those things that interest me."
And this comment points to a major problem within the motorcycle community. Or, what used to be a community.

If we want to see our hobby stay healthy, for ourselves as well as others, it is important for us to try to promote it to the upcoming generations. To do otherwise is shooting ourselves in the foot.
Respectfully, I disagree. Our hobby stays healthy because we enjoy riding and those around us, young and old, friends, family and strangers see that. Those that find even a tinkling interest may be further motivated by those observations.

I do agree with you about the social aspect that surrounds the Harley crowd. I might also point out that there are other dealers and shops that likewise promote a bike community atmosphere. I admit to frustration with riders who spend time pissing on other brands, and that includes Harley riders. But face it, those types of behaviors are a small part of the overall motorcycle community (even though web forums sometimes make them difficult to ignore).

I think new riders are attracted to the hobby/sport/lifestyle because of what they see and who they know more so than by people actively recruiting.

One final thought; those in the riding community who actually participate in positive legislation for all riders deserve special recognition.
Jan 31st 2018, 10:39 AM   #25
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
Respectfully, I disagree. Our hobby stays healthy because we enjoy riding and those around us, young and old, friends, family and strangers see that. Those that find even a tinkling interest may be further motivated by those observations.
Those observations need to be primarily positive ones, hence the "promotion" factor. The problem being that this bashing of brands and/or genres, combined with those who ride like idiots, contribute to the negative observations. Now we add in a media portrayal of motorcycles as dangerous and an overall lack of interest in the younger generation and you can start to see why the industry is in the decline that it is.

This is what I am saying about "promoting". Does your interaction with other people promote a positive, or negative, view of motorcycles? Does your riding contribute to a positive, or negative, view of motorcycles? Does your attitude about other riders promote a positive, or negative, view of motorcycles? The reality is that whether you like it or not, you are an ambassador of the motorcycle community.
Jan 31st 2018, 10:49 AM   #26
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
I might also point out that there are other dealers and shops that likewise promote a bike community atmosphere.
This may be true of some individual dealers or shops, but what I am saying is that it really needs to be part of the overall industry. Harley is really the only manufacturer out there that promotes the social aspect. It isn't just a dealer here or there, but part of the companies DNA as a whole.
Jan 31st 2018, 11:30 AM   #27
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
OK Kevin. I think we agree on most points. Yes, Harley does set the standard for customer involvement. Yes, public perception could always be more positive. As for those, and I include the media, who say that motorcycles are dangerous, they are correct. There is much WE can do to make it less dangerous and there is an equal amount that other motorists can do to make our riding safer. However, there is no denying that a collision between a motorcycle and any other vehicle (no matter how safe you are) represents a potentially painful outcome.

Personally speaking, my answers to all of the questions you have asked in your second paragraph are positive in the promotion of the hobby/sport. I think my point is that my attitude and actions speak for themselves and I don't feel the need to be proselytizing. If you are adamant about making changes, support positive legislation for our community. Join with Texasl in his efforts.

In the meantime, let's turn this thread back over to the brand bashers and market analysts. Ya' wanna arm wrestle ?
Jan 31st 2018, 12:29 PM   #28
 paradox206's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Des Moines

  M1200S, VFR800, XR650R & GSXR750
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW

My question to all of us this. What are you, personally, doing to bring the next generation into the hobby.
I've offered my spare bike as a loaner to get more of my friends riding. I had one take me up on it and he ended up getting a Dyna after riding my VFR for a year. Everyone else that has considered it has fallen back on the fair excuse of, "its too dangerous considering I have a wife/kids to think about". If I had a kid I'd probably make the personal choice not to ride either, so I can't blame them.
Jan 31st 2018, 12:32 PM   #29
 Tripledij's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Custer WA

  Aprilia Tuono 1100
I don't think HD is FUBAR, but I don't see how that hair dryer on wheels is going to fix any of their problems.
Jan 31st 2018, 12:55 PM   #30
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
but wait there's more:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harl...an-market.html

you know I heard this rumor that American jobs weren't going to be sent out of the country any more..that stuff was going to be stopped..like those jobs at Carrier...

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