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Jul 22nd 2017, 12:17 PM   #31
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
It's funny because I have become more the opposite. Having just gotten back into sport bike ownership I find that the Harley is just more enjoyable for everyday riding. I love the CBR, and it feels great to ride it, but I no longer need the adrenaline rush to enjoy the road. As a matter of fact I have found that not having that rush actually makes for a more relaxing ride. The CBR is always kind of pushing to go faster here, go a little faster there, "come on, we can take this corner quicker, can't we?" and with that always comes the worry about whether there will be a cop coming over the next rise, or around the next corner. The Harley, on the other hand, is a lot more laid back. it more of a "let's go out and rumble around, enjoy the scenery, the sights and smells". And with that comes a relaxed sense that I'm not constantly having to worry about law enforcement "catching me".

And that, that is the beauty of having multiple motorcycles. You pick the one to ride based upon the mood you're in.
Having multiple motorcycles is a goal...but impractical...and not financially always the most viable option for many of us.

There are many types of motorcycle riding...off-road, trails, mixed dirt/gravel/logging roads...street/asphalt/track. Hey...I even love Groms and scooters too...

It's not just...Sportbike vs. Cruiser...

The Harley people just don't look like they're having much fun...what with their hands above their shoulders...and/or the full weight of their legs fighting gravity as they rest their feet on these absurdly forward controls or floorboards...desperately pointing their toes out to the extreme left or right in a vain attempt to regain at least some feeling back in their legs.

My strong recommendation...before you drop some serious coin on an HD product is to rent or borrow one (if you can) and ride it for a couple of 200+ mile days solid...then come back and tell me just how "fun" it was...

And as Kevin suggests...if you're in the Harley ecosystem and have never ridden something else...for godsakes get out and jump on an adventure bike at a bare minimum...and at least have some comparative experience for what motorcycling truly can be...
Jul 22nd 2017, 05:28 PM   #32
 
  Jan 2016
  Renton

  2011 Triumph Daytona 675, 1975 Honda CB550K1
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralRdr
RIP Rider.
Lol. Best post of the thread...

Sent via HTC One M9
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Jul 22nd 2017, 11:50 PM   #33
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Having multiple motorcycles is a goal...but impractical...and not financially always the most viable option for many of us.
But it can be, as long as you are willing to not have the newest, shiniest machine. I have yet to own a brand new bike, came close once. My Harley is a salvage title bike. It was an insurance total when I bought it, for $4500. I put less than $100 into to make it safe and legal for the street (yes it helps to have a bike shop next door). After checking for frame damage and alignment, all I really had to do was replace the front brake lever, mirror, brake pedal and a rear turn signal. I lived with the dent in the tank for a year, but that all that it had taken for an insurance company to total a bike with less than 10,000 miles on it. Since then I have done more, and spent more, but I have a bike that if bought new, would have cost me a ton more than I have into it. The CBR I bought from my son-in-law for $800. I've put another $300 into and did all the work myself.

So yeah, neither is the flashiest, nor most advanced bike in their class, but for less than the cost of a new 300cc sport bike, I have both a big Harley cruiser (that is uniquely mine) and a 600 class sport bike (again, uniquely mine). Now to get the old FJ up onto the lift and start building a cafe racer (done right, not just hacking off fenders).

And just so you all know, I was vehemently anti-Harley for the first 15+ years of riding. Heck I was pretty anti-cruiser for that long as well.
Jul 23rd 2017, 08:22 AM   #34
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
My strong recommendation...before you drop some serious coin on an HD product is to rent or borrow one (if you can) and ride it for a couple of 200+ mile days solid...then come back and tell me just how "fun" it was...
I can only speak for myself (and all of my personalities) but pretty much every one of the 160,000 miles I put on the HMS Dribble, my 1988 Electra-Glide, were fun. I'm quite sure that when I get done reinventing it again I will have many more miles of fun.
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Jul 23rd 2017, 08:56 AM   #35
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

"The Harley people just don't look like they're having much fun...what with their hands above their shoulders...and/or the full weight of their legs fighting gravity as they rest their feet on these absurdly forward controls or floorboards...desperately pointing their toes out to the extreme left or right in a vain attempt to regain at least some feeling back in their legs."

I have owned a whole lotta motorcycles/scooters of various types as shapes and this statement makes me wonder if you have ever ridden a cruiser for any distance? This statement is just so,,, not true...

All the big cruisers are made for longer distance riding, not dragging hardware in the corners. Relaxed 'couch' type of riding. I call it 'slob' riding. The bike does not demand inputs constantly or challenge you to go faster.

It reminds me of two riders I know. One a 'go fast' crotch rocket (is that term still used?) guy and the other a Beemer rider. They went for a ride together and at the end the ride while having lunch the Beemer guy was talking about the scenery and roadside attractions and the Sportbike guy was identifying the road deformities and corners. To each his own. That is why there are so many different motorcycles.

I have had a couple HD’s and a few cruiser type motorcycles. I do not have one now. They are quite comfortable for the most part. I put 18,000+ miles on an HD Heritage Softail in one year. Big, heavy, not too loud. It let you just sit there and enjoy the view.

I bought a Yamaha TMAX scooter this year and could easily see myself putting that kind of miles on it . I have had it about a month and it has close to 2000 miles on it. Same deal, low center of gravity, holds a straight line. Does not require constant inputs. The difference is it WILL handle corners if I want it to. My wife said it is one of the most comfortable motorcycles she has been on. Did 300 miles double up with gear and got 43-44 MPG. This thing is amazing!
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Jul 23rd 2017, 09:05 AM   #36
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
The Harley people just don't look like they're having much fun...what with their hands above their shoulders...and/or the full weight of their legs fighting gravity as they rest their feet on these absurdly forward controls or floorboards...desperately pointing their toes out to the extreme left or right in a vain attempt to regain at least some feeling back in their legs.

My strong recommendation...before you drop some serious coin on an HD product is to rent or borrow one (if you can) and ride it for a couple of 200+ mile days solid...then come back and tell me just how "fun" it was...

And as Kevin suggests...if you're in the Harley ecosystem and have never ridden something else...for godsakes get out and jump on an adventure bike at a bare minimum...and at least have some comparative experience for what motorcycling truly can be...
And I would suggest the reverse as well. If you are a member of the "sport bike only" club, spend some time on a Harley (preferably a Big Twin) and spend some time around people who ride them. You'll find that riding one can often be more relaxing and enjoyable than folding yourself into some painful yoga position and getting stuck behind an RV on your favorite twistie, or needing a step stool to climb onto that adventure bike and then getting stuck in rush hour traffic trying to figure out how your going to tiptoe the dang thing for the next five miles. That Harley won't care either way. It will be perfectly happy to cruise along that twistie road, and you might find yourself seeing things you never did before while trying to keep that adrenaline focus on each apex. And you would have be exceedingly short to not be able to flat foot any of the Bit Twin bikes.

Here's the thing, as a motorcyclists, we should all try to see the other as a kindred spirit. It doesn't matter what we are riding, that fact is that we ARE riding. We are doing something that the majority of other people will never do. That should unify us. So freaking A, stop being judgmental about other bikes just because you don't understand their appeal. Harleys are a blast to ride, Sport bikes are a hoot as well. Hell, any bike is more fun to ride than being stuck in a car on a nice day.
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Edited by VeritasImageryNW on Jul 23rd 2017 at 09:09 AM
Jul 23rd 2017, 02:19 PM   #37
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
I have had an FLTCUI and an RC51 in my garage at the same time.
Bikes don't get more different than those.
I have had 5 Harleys and they were all competent, reliable, expensive, heavy, not much fun, easy to maintain, a PITA to clean, and a bunch of other mix-match things, same as every other bike.
None of my Harleys leaked or burned a single drop of oil. They all got over 40mpg. None of them liked to stop or turn. My Nightster had more pull than I thought it would for an air-cooled twin, but nothing like the RC51.
I don't have any Harleys any more.
I have the best bike I have ever had right now.
Bikes have gotten insanely better during my riding career. Hard to see how much better they could get without a revolutionary change like going electric.
But the roads have changed for the worse.
Cellphones and attitude all over the place. Everyone feels it.
I would not start riding right now, especially if I lived in momís basement and made 9 bucks an hour and owed 65000 dollars in student loans.
Hard to see how that changes any time soon except for the worse.
More babies. More drivers. More McDonalds. Same size planet.
Jul 24th 2017, 10:15 AM   #38
 HalcyonSon's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Renton

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
Having multiple motorcycles is a goal...but impractical...and not financially always the most viable option for many of us.

There are many types of motorcycle riding...off-road, trails, mixed dirt/gravel/logging roads...street/asphalt/track. Hey...I even love Groms and scooters too...

And as Kevin suggests...if you're in the Harley ecosystem and have never ridden something else...for godsakes get out and jump on an adventure bike at a bare minimum...and at least have some comparative experience for what motorcycling truly can be...
There are enough demo rides out there to allow everyone to try a little of everything before forming an opinion. Too often, attitude gets in the way.

I've ridden more bikes than I can count on demos. Mostly I've been grateful that I didn't have to take any of them home after a 20-30 minute ride. Either I was on a single that felt like it would grenade above 55 mph, or I was on a child-size torture rack, or I couldn't see anything on the gauges, or the barn-door and couch would only be comfortable doing 55 mph on a perfectly straight two-lane and looking at the clouds for ten hours.
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Jul 24th 2017, 12:14 PM   #39
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonSon
There are enough demo rides out there to allow everyone to try a little of everything before forming an opinion. Too often, attitude gets in the way.

I've ridden more bikes than I can count on demos. Mostly I've been grateful that I didn't have to take any of them home after a 20-30 minute ride. Either I was on a single that felt like it would grenade above 55 mph, or I was on a child-size torture rack, or I couldn't see anything on the gauges, or the barn-door and couch would only be comfortable doing 55 mph on a perfectly straight two-lane and looking at the clouds for ten hours.
That's the whole thing.

There's giant BMW cruisers or the FJ or the Concours...dozens of bikes for different purposes. I'm just not a "brand person"...don't wear Nike...I do wear a Harley shirt because it's black...and my wife bought it... The SV was $2500...the Sportster was $2250 (State Farm insurance branded title)...I've ridden the 800+ pound behemoths and it just ain't for me...for some people I'm sure it works...I don't understand the draw of something as beastly as the Goldwing...heck...I had one hell of a good time bopping through town on an Elite 80 ($800) for 2-3 years...

When I got the Sportster I discovered it's limits...as a machine...in about 3 hours. And sure...I get that some people cruise around all day in parade formation and thoroughly enjoy the experience. The HD is fun and EASY to work on (mostly because it's carbureted) and the wiring harness is the simplest thing I've ever seen. That's its biggest plus. The SV is just really fun to ride...and it's not a "Sportbike" or anything...it's just a little entry-level UJM. And...you can explore its capabilities without any adrenaline or railing around every corner at double & 10...as you can with any machine...people buy Corvettes and they don't jump on the 205 and go 100+ all day long...I...personally...feel safer on a machine where I can stop/go/escape in seconds versus having to figure out what the machine can or can't do...and operate within those predefined limits...
Jul 24th 2017, 12:26 PM   #40
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
That's the whole thing.
When I got the Sportster I discovered it's limits...as a machine...in about 3 hours. And sure...I get that some people cruise around all day in parade formation and thoroughly enjoy the experience. The HD is fun and EASY to work on (mostly because it's carbureted) and the wiring harness is the simplest thing I've ever seen. That's its biggest plus. The SV is just really fun to ride...and it's not a "Sportbike" or anything...it's just a little entry-level UJM. And...you can explore its capabilities without any adrenaline or railing around every corner at double & 10...as you can with any machine...people buy Corvettes and they don't jump on the 205 and go 100+ all day long...I...personally...feel safer on a machine where I can stop/go/escape in seconds versus having to figure out what the machine can or can't do...and operate within those predefined limits...
1. I very rarely ride in any kind of parade. Most of my riding is by myself. And most of it on the rural twisty roads around Mason County (Hood Canal and Dewatto), Kitsap County and the Key Penn. Not once has my Dyna let me down. (Now my 1200C Sportster did, with it's stupid narrow 21inch front tire, and too cramped for my height).

2. Harleys haven't been carbureted since 2006.

3. I had an SV for a short while and though it was okay, I didn't enjoy it as much as either the Harley or the CBR. The reality is that I have had the opportunity to ride, and spend time with, a lot of different bikes in my nearly 30 years of riding, and I could find something great, and something horrible, with each one. So the best thing I can do is pick the ones I like, and remember that every bike serves a purpose, and is enjoyable and right for someone. So, even though I might not choose to ride a particular bike, that doesn't mean that it's a bad bike.
Jul 24th 2017, 01:30 PM   #41
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
1. I very rarely ride in any kind of parade. Most of my riding is by myself. And most of it on the rural twisty roads around Mason County (Hood Canal and Dewatto), Kitsap County and the Key Penn. Not once has my Dyna let me down. (Now my 1200C Sportster did, with it's stupid narrow 21inch front tire, and too cramped for my height).

2. Harleys haven't been carbureted since 2006.

3. I had an SV for a short while and though it was okay, I didn't enjoy it as much as either the Harley or the CBR. The reality is that I have had the opportunity to ride, and spend time with, a lot of different bikes in my nearly 30 years of riding, and I could find something great, and something horrible, with each one. So the best thing I can do is pick the ones I like, and remember that every bike serves a purpose, and is enjoyable and right for someone. So, even though I might not choose to ride a particular bike, that doesn't mean that it's a bad bike.
I don't know about the 21" thing...guessing that would suck. Cheaper to maybe get a 19" rim than a Dyna? If there's a better handling Harley than a Sportster I haven't seen it...well...since the 1125 CR...or the XB12 (a Sportster variant) before that...narrow wheels make turn-in better...not worse...but...I guess that's more of a physics argument...um...but okay...

The fact that my bike was made in 1998 would explain the carb...and I love the sound of that motor a lot more than the modern TC Evo...and definitely more than what's being made now...in my view the glory years were 1986-1998...I mean...there was a 60-90 day waiting list for HD product back then.

The CBR is a race replica...of course it can't be compared to an entry level bike like the SV...come on...only Harley themselves make an "entry level" bike that's more capable...as a motorcycle...than anything else in their product line...
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Jul 24th 2017, 02:03 PM   #42
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
I don't know about the 21" thing...guessing that would suck. Cheaper to maybe get a 19" rim than a Dyna? If there's a better handling Harley than a Sportster I haven't seen it...well...since the 1125 CR...or the XB12 (a Sportster variant) before that...narrow wheels make turn-in better...not worse...but...I guess that's more of a physics argument...um...but okay...

The fact that my bike was made in 1998 would explain the carb...and I love the sound of that motor a lot more than the modern TC Evo...and definitely more than what's being made now...in my view the glory years were 1986-1998...I mean...there was a 60-90 day waiting list for HD product back then.

The CBR is a race replica...of course it can't be compared to an entry level bike like the SV...come on...only Harley themselves make an "entry level" bike that's more capable...as a motorcycle...than anything else in their product line...
The Sportster was ergonomically too small for me. The skinny front tire made for zero grip, which then created wheel chatter in hard corners. And also, since you seem to not know Harley's, the Sportster C was the only one to have a 21, all the rest had 19s. I, personally, found the Sportster much less capable as I have the Dyna. It was horribly "buzzy" at highway speeds, and too small overall, which made spending any real road time on it very difficult, and not really enjoyable. Again, "capable" is determined by what you want a bike to do.

And the CBR600F4 is only a "race replica" if you take it back to 1999, and even then it's pretty tame. Also, at the time, it was an entry level bike. So, it's real easy to compare a newer SV (especially an "S" model) to the older F series CBRs. Here's my issue with the SV, though it is a great bike, it just feels confusing. It has the frame geometry, seat angle, and foot peg positioning as a sport bike, but then has these flat bars like an old standard. I mean here is looks like it wants to be a standard, but then folds you up like a sport bike. It's somewhere in between and for me, as is, it just doesn't do either the sport bike, or the standard, well. And on top of that, I find the CBR more comfortable to ride around town on then the SV. The seat is more cushioned, and the angle from the seat to the bars is not as steep.
Jul 24th 2017, 02:36 PM   #43
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
I find it (the Sportster) functional enough to go a little hooligan on it...mine has all the Screaming Eagle crap on it & I think it might have cams because it sounds really radical at idle... it's hard to tell because it's a salvage bike and I don't have any history of ownership on it... anyway I was coming out of Carver and that really hard right hander that you hit coming out of there & was a dude on a Kawasaki and I was kind of following him as soon as we get around the corner he just drops a cog & takes a blast...and I'm like OK he's still going to hit that 35 mile an hour lefty (you know where Floyd Miles died) I wonder how fast he is going to go through that?...so I take the decision to give chase and of course the damn Sporty tops out about 90-ish...which still plenty damn fast...and I catch the guy in the middle of the corner and you know I probably only slowed 10 to 15 for it... and from there to the Mc Iver he can't get away...everything's turns within a few hundred feet ....that's the kind of shit that's hilarious about the Sporty....two up...or with a kid on the back for a Sunday ride...it's the tits...

The SV650 has no suspension whatsoever it's almost like...hey let's make a bike without a suspension...it's kinda like... well...a Sportster... that said if you spent some money suspending it properly which I have NOT ...you can track the shit out of it...chase down just about anything less than a liter bike...and of course...thousands of people have done just that...it's not very inspiring out of the crate... but it has capabilities it even I cannot fully exploit...and heck.... some guy sold it to me for 2500 bucks because he got nervous after he fell over to the left...cha-ching...there might not be a more reliable engine in all of motorsport...there's some guy on the VStrom forum who's done 400,000 miles without so much as tearing off the top-end...and...the 11K redline is extraordinarily helpful...it's like a very very very poor man's Ducati...

Edited by ShootPDX on Jul 24th 2017 at 03:26 PM
Jul 24th 2017, 03:29 PM   #44
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
I find it functional enough to go a little hooligan on it...mine has all the screaming Eagle crap on it & I think it might have cams because it sounds really radical at idle... it's hard to tell because it's a salvage bike and I don't have any history of ownership on it... anyway I was coming out of Carver and that really hard right hander that you hit coming out of there & was a dude on a Kawasaki and I was kind of following him as soon as we get around the corner he just drops a cog & takes a blast...and I'm like OK he's still going to hit that 35 mile an hour lefty (you know where Floyd Miles died) I wonder how fast he is going to go through that?...so I take the decision to give chase and of course the damn Sporty tops out about 90-ish...which still plenty damn fast...and I catch the guy in the middle of the corner and you know I probably only slowed 10 to 15 for it... and from there to the MC Iver he can't get away...everything is turns within a few hundred feet ....that's the kind of shit that's hilarious about the Sporty....two up...or with a kid on the back for a Sunday ride..it's the tits...

The SV650 has no suspension whatsoever it's almost like...hey let's make a bike without a suspension...it's kinda like... well...a Sportster... that said if you spent some money suspending it properly which I have NOT ...you can track the shit out of it...chase down just about anything less than a liter bike...and of course...thousands of people have done just that...it's not very inspiring out of the crate... but it has capabilities it even I cannot fully exploit...and heck.... some guy sold it to me for 2500 bucks because he got nervous after he fell over to the left...cha-ching...there might not be a more reliable engine in all of motorsport there some guy on the V Strom forum who's done 400,000 miles without so much as tearing off the top-end...and...the 11K redline is extraordinarily helpful...it's like a very very very poor man's Ducati...
Not saying the SV is a bad bike, but for me it just doesn't do it. The one I had, which my son bought from me, I got for $2500. It is an '05, and not the S, so it doesn't have the fairing or the clip ons, but it did already have a suspension upgrade to a ZX14 rear shock and Emulators up front. My CBR, I bought this spring for $800. Needed a new stator, paint job and some cosmetic things replaced.

Now with your Sporty, is it an 883 or a 1200. Makes a big difference. ANd here's the thing, if it's an 883 then making it at 1200 is easy, and actually makes better power than the factory 1200. And there is one thing about the Harleys that no other bike has, the ability to customize it any way you want. I can put full Ohlin's suspension on it (upside down forks and remote res. shocks in the rear). If I want more power, with the right amount of money I can buy an S&S crate motor displacing 142ci (2300cc), and even be able to put it in myself.

Will I ever be able to make the Dyna go, stop or corner like a ZX10RR? No, but I didn't buy it to do those things like the ZX. The argument that Harleys are bad because they don't handle like lighter, sportier bikes would be like saying F150s are bad because they can't go around the track like a 911. It's all in the purpose behind the vehicle, because a 911 would suck to haul lumber around in.
Jul 24th 2017, 06:20 PM   #45
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
It's all in the purpose behind the vehicle, because a 911 would suck to haul lumber around in.
Not if it has a sun roof.
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