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Jul 1st 2017, 06:45 PM   #76
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Only in 601+ cc bikes.
You're clearly missing the entire point! What the heck is wrong with you?

The market leader in heavyweight cruisers which may or may not be able to round a corner without dragging some hard parts and which may or may not slowly vibrate itself apart is unquestionable!

Get with it man! Get in there with the "in crowd" and dress in enough leather accoutrements that it might appear as though you're headed either to...or from...a gay bar!

Jul 1st 2017, 07:40 PM   #77
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
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Jul 2nd 2017, 09:59 AM   #78
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Dragon
Yesterday I rode 300 miles from Port Orchard to Mt Rainier, over the top (Paradise) and down the "back" side toward 12 back through Elbe etc.

There were moments when the ride was fun, the road was open, and it was a good time.

But for probably 60% of the ride I was just trolling along behind cars or inching forward in traffic trying to stay away from people working their phones while driving or being pissed off at the world and taking it out on anyone around them.

Some of the drivers appeared to be calm though, just accepting that the world is a crowded place. SO it was a real mix.

But it was not anything I could write home about. If I was not already addicted to the whole motorcycle thing I don't think I'd enjoy getting into it right now.

Sadly, there does not seem to be a lot of open road left and I can see why many folks do not think motorcycles would be a good idea right now.

Dunno. Certainly there are places where it isn't crowded and where a nice open road bike would be a real joy. And sometimes, mostly at 10:00 on a weekday in the fall or winter, it is beautiful and un-crowded even here. But in the warm season on the weekends, when everyone else it out doing the same exact thing but in their F350 dually or their minivan, riding is not really all that compelling.
Jul 2nd 2017, 11:57 AM   #79
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

It's a holiday weekend man, what do you expect? I had a pretty good ride this morning though, out in the sticks, not much traffic. Many people were probably in church so heathens like me could enjoy the road without them.
Jul 2nd 2017, 12:39 PM   #80
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
There were moments when the ride was fun, the road was open, and it was a good time.
With you brother...

It's very hard to find both the time and open spaces. We're often doing these little hundred-milers in the mid-week and the first half-hour or so it is just getting far enough out of town where there is some "open" road. And even then it means bouncing across the dubs a few times to get clear of something...horse trailers...whatever...
Aug 23rd 2017, 08:02 PM   #81
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
HD Marketshare in...yes...601cc and up bikes has fallen to 48.3%...Thank God himself...at long last...they're no longer the "market leader"...even in made-up market segments...so...we no longer have to keep hearing this...although...somehow...I think we still will...
Aug 24th 2017, 10:03 AM   #82
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Depends on my mood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
HD Marketshare in...yes...601cc and up bikes has fallen to 48.3%...Thank God himself...at long last...they're no longer the "market leader"...even in made-up market segments...so...we no longer have to keep hearing this...although...somehow...I think we still will...
You sound happy about this.

Why?

Who gives a rip about who has the biggest market share as long as we can buy the bikes we like and want.

The fact that this drop in motorcycles purchased in the US is across the board is very troubling. I know of few if any manufacturers who are ahead of the game in this country from years past, indicating that motorcycling is heading to trash heap of transportation history.

What you are seeing now is many brands are trying desperately to lure new riders into the fold by offering some really cool, smaller, less expensive bikes. We just saw Harley try their usual stunt of eliminating/renaming a line of bikes, only this time they did put a decent engine in them. I hope they sell a shit load of bikes regardless of their lack of imagination and ingenuity, but I am afraid we are seeing the beginning of a last ditch effort to move motorcycles across many lines and models.

When this fails, and the base dies off or stops riding due to age, you are going to see innovation crap out and a huge contraction of models offered by all manufacturers and the eventual exit in the US market. This is not just a Harley problem. I just read an article where all the Japanese brands are dropping models or temporarily discontinuing models until sales and regulations improve.

I am witnessing this contraction personally. I hope it is temporary, and just a cyclical thing but I have my doubts.

Dusty
Aug 24th 2017, 11:51 AM   #83
 ShootPDX's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  Happy Valley area (Clackamas)

  SV650S Silver, HD Sportster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
You sound happy about this.

Why?
I am happy about this. It means that sitting on your tail and doing nothing gets the exact reward it deserves. When Ducati is up 27% in some markets...and Indian is up 9% in the US...and you're down...that's the market...telling you something...you can listen...or you can keep doing the same stuff...dealers have no place to store product...they're not gonna take umpteen motorcycles at 2017 calendar-year-end so that corporate can continue to pad their sales numbers...so...here we are.

It's time...heck...it's beyond time to start doing some stuff differently...
Aug 24th 2017, 01:45 PM   #84
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Depends on my mood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootPDX
I am happy about this. It means that sitting on your tail and doing nothing gets the exact reward it deserves. When Ducati is up 27% in some markets...and Indian is up 9% in the US...and you're down...that's the market...telling you something...you can listen...or you can keep doing the same stuff...dealers have no place to store product...they're not gonna take umpteen motorcycles at 2017 calendar-year-end so that corporate can continue to pad their sales numbers...so...here we are.

It's time...heck...it's beyond time to start doing some stuff differently...
I could agree with you if the other manufacturers were taking up the slack and meeting the number of units Harley did not sell, so the total sold was the same. Then Harley would have to make the decision to change of remain the same. If they failed, sucks to be them.

This is not happening.

My concern is that with few exceptions, overall sales for bikes peaked in 2015, then remained flat or dropped in 2016. It doesn't look like 2017 is going to be any better. Lots of possibilities as to why, but the fact remains times are tough for new bike sales and getting tougher for US market.

Dusty

Dusty
Aug 24th 2017, 02:17 PM   #85
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
I could agree with you if the other manufacturers were taking up the slack and meeting the number of units Harley did not sell, so the total sold was the same. Then Harley would have to make the decision to change of remain the same. If they failed, sucks to be them.

This is not happening.

My concern is that with few exceptions, overall sales for bikes peaked in 2015, then remained flat or dropped in 2016. It doesn't look like 2017 is going to be any better. Lots of possibilities as to why, but the fact remains times are tough for new bike sales and getting tougher for US market.

Dusty

Dusty
Exactly, I could see why the "anti-Harley" crowd could be happy if "their" particular brand, or genre, was making up the difference, but they aren't. Sure a couple brands had a sales increase, but if you sold 10 bikes one year and 15 bikes the next (as an example) that would be a 50% sales increase, but barely a drop in the bucket overall. The same can be said for Ducati's and Indian's sales increases. With overall motorcycle sales declining, these increases are not doing anything to boost the market.

And I agree that the US market is in trouble. And to wish any manufacturer ill (just because you don't like what they sell) puts you on the outside of the industry, and actually part of the problem. We should be encouraging new riders and all brands and genres of bikes. Be a motorcyclist, not just a "(insert brand/genre) rider".
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Aug 24th 2017, 07:37 PM   #86
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Triumph Street Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
I could agree with you if the other manufacturers were taking up the slack and meeting the number of units Harley did not sell, so the total sold was the same. Then Harley would have to make the decision to change of remain the same. If they failed, sucks to be them.

This is not happening.

My concern is that with few exceptions, overall sales for bikes peaked in 2015, then remained flat or dropped in 2016. It doesn't look like 2017 is going to be any better. Lots of possibilities as to why, but the fact remains times are tough for new bike sales and getting tougher for US market.

Dusty

Dusty
But this is not what's happening. Harley sales were shrinking when others' sales were still expanding. And now Harley sales are shrinking much faster than the market.

That's the sad reality. It doesn't make me happy - I wish them to succeed, and to actually WANT to buy an American motorcycle.

But when their whole engineering team goes dark for a whole year, and comes back with a *revolutionary* monoshock rear suspension, 32 degrees (!!) lean angle, *innovative* Showa forks, and shaves *whole* 35 lbs off 670 lbs behemoth, it is not going to happen anytime soon.
Aug 25th 2017, 07:36 AM   #87
 Tripledij's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Custer WA

  Aprilia Tuono 1100
In other HD news... V-Rod dead?

Wait. Is the Harley-Davidson V-Rod Dead? | RideApart
Aug 25th 2017, 08:30 AM   #88
 
  Jan 2016
  Renton

  2011 Triumph Daytona 675, 1975 Honda CB550K1
I wonder if motorcycle manufacturers ought to more aggressively market to bicyclists. Bikes are the gateway drug to bikes, and bicycles are pretty popular.

Sent via HTC One M9
Aug 25th 2017, 11:24 AM   #89
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
But this is not what's happening. Harley sales were shrinking when others' sales were still expanding. And now Harley sales are shrinking much faster than the market.
Those "expanding" sales are only with companies that are already small time manufacturers in the US. Let's take Triumph, who had a sales increase in North America for 2016 of just over 15% with 13,000 bikes sold. That's total for US, Canada and Mexico. Harley, on the other hand, with a 3.9% decrease, still sold over 170,000 bikes in North America. Ducati had an amazing year in 2016 with a total of 55,000 sold world wide, but that only translated to 8,700 bikes sold in the US. So, yes, a few small manufacturers' sales have increased, but not in the numbers to claim they are affecting Harley sales.

And it is still very important to remember that overall motorcycle sales in the US dropped by 2.9% in 2016. That means that all the big players lost sales last year. And to make matters worse, sales in the UK grew by 11.5% in the same time period. Even Harley had sales increases in 2016 internationally. What that says is this isn't a "Harley" issue, but a market issue.
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Aug 25th 2017, 11:25 AM   #90
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveohford
I wonder if motorcycle manufacturers ought to more aggressively market to bicyclists. Bikes are the gateway drug to bikes, and bicycles are pretty popular.

Sent via HTC One M9
Won't work, bikes are "green". Motorcycles don't have that appeal, they're too fast and scary.
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