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Jun 28th 2017, 08:13 AM   #31
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
C'mon guys, it's only $1.6 billion. Let's do a go fund me!
Jun 28th 2017, 09:46 AM   #32
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
C'mon, who's not looking forward to riding the Ducati Blast: a thumper made by lopping a cylinder off an L-twin?
wooden and DKBOM like this.
Jun 28th 2017, 10:37 AM   #33
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman
Yeah, right. HD ain't gonna sign any blank checks for R&D at Ducati, while their own bikes evolve a teensy bit about every 18 years... They'll just say "Nah, how about just some Bold New Graphics this year, or how about a 'Heritage' bike... ?" Then all the really talented designers and engineers will leave and find challenging work elsewhere. We've already seen this with MV Agusta.

Ducati has really been on a tear lately with extremely rapid development, thanks to the deep pockets at Audi. Almost too fast for consumers to keep up. New models every year! That ain't gonna last. Harley milks each model until the demand has completely dried up. I predict another sale in 5 years.

It's like InBev buying another MicroBrewery....if you can't do it yourself, buy it!
If you think that HD's board of directors don't know how to run a company, even if it's not a carbon copy of their own, you are mistaken. It does not take much to see that the two companies have a vastly different buyer base. It's not in their favor to run Ducati into the ground for short term profit, then sell off the remains. Ducati name by itself is very storied and worth a lot of money, even if they produced nothing from here on out. HD knows this.
Jun 28th 2017, 10:53 AM   #34
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon

  2017 Kaw Ninja 1000 ABS (Z1000SX)
Harley would be much better off building a LONG awaited American sportbike than trying to acquire something it doesn't understand. Why dump Buell to buy Ducati? Harely does what it does well, but that doesn't mean it knows how to venture outside of its own backyard.
Jun 28th 2017, 11:28 AM   #35
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman
Harley would be much better off building a LONG awaited American sportbike than trying to acquire something it doesn't understand. Why dump Buell to buy Ducati? Harely does what it does well, but that doesn't mean it knows how to venture outside of its own backyard.
Which is exactly why they bought MV. They know that sport bikes aren't in their wheelhouse, so better to buy a sport bike brand in order to get into the market than to try to stumble along. And even though Buells were decent bikes, they just couldn't compete, on the track or in the market. And I don't think the "long awaited American sport bike" is really that long awaited.

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Jun 28th 2017, 12:24 PM   #36
 
  Jan 2016
  Renton

  2011 Triumph Daytona 675, 1975 Honda CB550K1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Which is exactly why they bought MV. They know that sport bikes aren't in their wheelhouse, so better to buy a sport bike brand in order to get into the market than to try to stumble along. And even though Buells were decent bikes, they just couldn't compete, on the track or in the market. And I don't think the "long awaited American sport bike" is really that long awaited.

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Yeah, the "long awaited American sportbike" would have to be a real sexy, fast machine with more than a pair of cylinders to pull most sport riders away from their better established Japanese or European machines of choice.

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Jun 28th 2017, 02:14 PM   #37
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveohford
Yeah, the "long awaited American sportbike" would have to be a real sexy, fast machine with more than a pair of cylinders to pull most sport riders away from their better established Japanese or European machines of choice.

Sent via HTC One M9
Exactly. Even though the new Corvette, the Viper and the Ford GT are pretty good cars, they really aren't going to steal customers from Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini. American "sports" vehicles just don't command the market that established sport manufacturers will always have.
Jun 28th 2017, 04:07 PM   #38
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
Seriously, if H-D wants a segment to branch out into where their marque is likely to have an impact, they're probably going to have to make quads. Nothing's more American: they spend 2/3rds of the year in the garage and you can ride them unfit, unskilled and drunk. They could probably make a pretty big dent in that market.
Jun 28th 2017, 05:40 PM   #39
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpShatner7
Seriously, if H-D wants a segment to branch out into where their marque is likely to have an impact, they're probably going to have to make quads. Nothing's more American: they spend 2/3rds of the year in the garage and you can ride them unfit, unskilled and drunk. They could probably make a pretty big dent in that market.
I think that they are looking more at the European market rather than the US market. Considering they still hold the market share in the US for street bikes, they really don't need to do anything different here, especially not concern themselves with sport bikes and such for this market. I know that was the intent in buying MV when they did, it wasn't about gaining a market here but rather in Europe.
Jun 28th 2017, 08:29 PM   #40
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon

  2017 Kaw Ninja 1000 ABS (Z1000SX)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Which is exactly why they bought MV. They know that sport bikes aren't in their wheelhouse, so better to buy a sport bike brand in order to get into the market than to try to stumble along. And even though Buells were decent bikes, they just couldn't compete, on the track or in the market. And I don't think the "long awaited American sport bike" is really that long awaited.
For what they're thinking of paying for Ducati, they could easily build a sportbike. They used Porsche to design the V-Rod motor, hard to say what that bike really is... Remember to VR1000?? Great looking bike, used Precision Castparts here in Portland for the frame, I woulda bought one if they had developed the bike... They could build a bike with a Chevy block cut in half EITHER WAY and have an instant hit.

Something tells me that 'HarCati' will just be another failure from a Company that is so anchored to the past they can't move forward. Recent attempts with their 500 and 750 fell flat too. Really sad. I don't think Milwaukee is a hotbed of forward thinking...
Jun 28th 2017, 08:31 PM   #41
 
  Jan 2016
  Oregon

  2017 Kaw Ninja 1000 ABS (Z1000SX)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
Exactly. Even though the new Corvette, the Viper and the Ford GT are pretty good cars, they really aren't going to steal customers from Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini. American "sports" vehicles just don't command the market that established sport manufacturers will always have.
Yeah well take a look at the 2018 Camaro 1LE. Total Track Machine. 650 HP, 650 ft. lbs, $70K!

I think they're all spoken for already.
Jun 28th 2017, 09:01 PM   #42
 cgt1229's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Bellingham

  Suzuki
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman
Remember to VR1000??
Yes I do, was gonna mention that would be a great platform for an american sportbike at the time, maybe still.
Doug Chandler, Miguel Duhamel, Scott Russell...who else rode that bike in AMA?
Only Duc I ever rode was a 2005 999, for about 20 minutes.
It was enjoyable.
Jun 28th 2017, 10:25 PM   #43
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
I think that they are looking more at the European market rather than the US market. Considering they still hold the market share in the US for street bikes, they really don't need to do anything different here, especially not concern themselves with sport bikes and such for this market. I know that was the intent in buying MV when they did, it wasn't about gaining a market here but rather in Europe.
Wikipedia says Harley owned MV Agusta for a total of ten months. MV sales went up 50% in the second quarter of their ownership. But Harley sold MV anyway.
Jun 29th 2017, 08:51 AM   #44
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman
Yeah well take a look at the 2018 Camaro 1LE. Total Track Machine. 650 HP, 650 ft. lbs, $70K!

I think they're all spoken for already.
Again, not really stealing customers from the big Sports Car brands. It's a completely different machine. Remember that it's an "American" take on a track car. It's taking a distinctly American muscle car and making it track worthy, not the same as making an American sports car.
Jun 29th 2017, 08:56 AM   #45
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB
Wikipedia says Harley owned MV Agusta for a total of ten months. MV sales went up 50% in the second quarter of their ownership. But Harley sold MV anyway.
Yes, but they were still operating at a major loss. Then hampered by the sharp decline in sport bike sales that all the manufacturers encountered.

"Harley acquired MV Agusta in October 2008 for $109 million, including $70 million in assumed debt.

The Italian company produces a line of sport bikes under its brand, and another line of bikes under the Cagiva brand.

Harley-Davidson had high hopes for the Italian firm as a premium brand in a field crowded with Japanese competitors.

More than 80% of MV Agusta's sales are in Europe, an important market for Harley as it looks overseas for growth.

But when sport-bike sales collapsed in the recession, the relationship with the Italians did not work out as planned.

To date, Harley-Davidson has taken $162 million in write-downs for MV Agusta, and the company says more losses are anticipated as the sale winds its way through Harley's accounting system.

The terms reflect the realities of the economy and the difficult conditions in the sport bike market, said Harley spokesman Bob Klein.

'At the time of the purchase, it was a totally different environment,' he said."

Harley-Davidson takes a beating on MV Agusta
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