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Mar 31st 2018, 09:04 AM   #1
 Cougar's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Richland

  Yamaha FZ1, KTM Super Duke GT, Yamaha FJR, Yamaha XS650
Guy Crashes at Track Day, Sues Track and Others

https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...ref_map=%5B%5D

It IS Kolifornia so who know how this will go...
Mar 31st 2018, 09:30 AM   #2
 MikeMikeMike's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Seattle

America has become a country entirely obsessed with ourselves.

From the 52 seconds of the plaintiffs riding I have seen it is obvious he was riding over his head, he ran wide on an easy turn at a modest pace. Then it turns out sport bikes don't make good dirt bikes at high speed and he fell down, went boom.

Broken femur sucks and could be life threatening, but it's not the sand bag or track day organizers fault, you ran wide.

Unfortunately we have way too many lawyers, and a bunch of adult children who can't accept personal responsibility. This guy should be shunned by everybody who knows him. His selfishness (but more broadly) the average american's attitude on personal responsibility is ruining the country. We always look to blame somebody else, and every accident is analyzed for it's potential value as a legal payday.

Simple solution: Loser pays legal fees. Yeah some people will get screwed, but there will be fewer frivolous lawsuits and a bunch of lawyers will go hungry. With WMRRA currently shuttered by their inability to find an insurance provider, and now this guy, I don't see a long term future for track day providers.
Gremlin likes this.
Mar 31st 2018, 09:48 AM   #3
 Gremlin's Avatar
 
  May 2016
  The Socialist Republic of Seattle

  SV650 X 2
I remember signing a legal wavier basically saying "racing is dangerous; ride at your own risk" back in the late 1990s when I took a motorcycle novice racing class.

Did this track in Commie-fornia (California) do the same?

@MikeMikeMike. Thank you X1,000,000
Mar 31st 2018, 09:49 AM   #4
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '15 Grom, '08 BMW K12GT, '06 Honda CBR1000RR (Track), '14 KTM Duke 690
Two separate sets of lawsuits in Cali by riders at track days.

One by Daniel Kim against the org (SCRAMP) that runs Laguna has been dismissed. Kim is also suing the track-day provider.

Based on that PR pic of bad-boy-poser Kim with his toy . . . he looks like EXACTLY the kind of asshole who'd pull a stunt like this.

Second Cali lawsuit by Mariusz Dziurzynski, is more recent and yet to be litigated.

Edited by FireDave on Mar 31st 2018 at 02:46 PM
Mar 31st 2018, 09:54 AM   #5
 Cougar's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Richland

  Yamaha FZ1, KTM Super Duke GT, Yamaha FJR, Yamaha XS650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremlin
I remember signing a legal wavier basically saying "racing is dangerous; ride at your own risk" back in the late 1990s when I took a motorcycle novice racing class.

Did this track in Commie-fornia (California) do the same?

@MikeMikeMike. Thank you X1,000,000
Yes he did. It's the same with snow skiing and motocross tracks. Do so at your own risk.
Mar 31st 2018, 10:04 AM   #6
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  Aprilia rsvr gsxr600 gsxr1000
So you go to a track day and crash all by yourself and its somebody elses Fault? These people Should be publicly shamed, ostracized from the sport and neutered to remove their genes from the pool
Cougar, equinity and ZXtasy like this.
Mar 31st 2018, 12:57 PM   #7
 mgfchapin's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland, WA

  '15 Daytona 675R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremlin
I remember signing a legal wavier basically saying "racing is dangerous; ride at your own risk" back in the late 1990s when I took a motorcycle novice racing class.

Did this track in Commie-fornia (California) do the same?
The waiver doesn't apply to gross negligence, which is what Kim and his lawyers are claiming against Laguna Seca/Keigwins.

WMRRA wasn't even given a chance to go to court before a payment was made through arbitration and they got fucked out of insurance. Fortunately, the owner of Keigwins won't make that mistake and he's intent on taking this to court to make sure Kim gets nothing but lawyer bills out of this whole charade.
Mar 31st 2018, 01:59 PM   #8
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

I read somewhere:
"An agreement signed means you hire a Lawyer to challenge it".
Mar 31st 2018, 02:39 PM   #9
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  2014 FJR-ES
I don’t want to defend Kim or his poor riding that resulted in his inability to stay on the track, but if the purpose of the runoff is to increase rider safety then the position of multiple sand bags in a line that effectively blocked most of the runoff area appears to cancel any safety benefit of having the runoff and instead turns the runoff area into a unmarked hazard area.

Edited by mcrider007 on Mar 31st 2018 at 03:22 PM
Mar 31st 2018, 03:28 PM   #10
 mgfchapin's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland, WA

  '15 Daytona 675R
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrider007
I don’t want to defend Kim or his poor riding that resulted in his inability to stay on the track, but if the purpose of the runoff is to increase rider safety then the position of multiple sand bags in a line that effectively blocked most of the runoff area appears to cancel any safety benefit of having the runoff and instead turns the runoff area into a unmarked hazard area.
If you've never been to Laguna, the run-off isn't a typical run-off area that you'd see at most other tracks that don't hold world-class events. FIM-spec run-off is gravel up to your shins. We are always warned at riders meetings at Laguna not to run off. Period.

Also, if the sandbags hadn't been there, who knows how much water would've found its way onto the track, and they also block a gulley that would've caused a similar if not worse crash.
Mar 31st 2018, 04:08 PM   #11
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
The other thing about this case is that Kim got to the track late, well after the rider's meeting. If the sandbags had been mentioned it would have happened then. Also, this accident occurred on his tenth lap, by that time he should have noticed the bags were there. Obviously they didn't concern him enough to stop and complain.

Sent via SM-G950U
Apr 1st 2018, 05:09 AM   #12
 tod701's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stanwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfchapin
The waiver doesn't apply to gross negligence,
And the fine print in your health insurance likely says that you cannot waive their right to sue to recoup their expenses too.

Small motocross tracks have been put out of business by the health insurance companies suing even when the rider hired a lawyer in an attempt to stop them.

Sadly, in at least one case, clueless riders did not understand that and made death threats against the injured rider.
Apr 1st 2018, 08:01 AM   #13
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
There were water ruts shown in the video in the same area as the sand bags, which were just as deep as the sand bags were tall. He could have just as likely crashed on those. Should the track day provider be responsible for landscaping the entire track prior to a single track day? The bag was only about 4" high, all he had to do is lean back and gas it and he would have jumped right over it!
Apr 1st 2018, 09:04 AM   #14
 Burphel's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Travelling around the NW

  Triumph Bonnezilla, Little Ninja
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
The other thing about this case is that Kim got to the track late, well after the rider's meeting. If the sandbags had been mentioned it would have happened then. Also, this accident occurred on his tenth lap, by that time he should have noticed the bags were there. Obviously they didn't concern him enough to stop and complain.

Sent via SM-G950U
I worry about this. Most organizations state up front that you must attend the rider meeting. Most will also let experienced riders on if they show up late or want to do a half-day. But by not adhering to their own safety policy, I'm thinking a decent lawyer could make that into negligence on the part of the track day provider. I realize it's extra work, but I'm thinking a lunch safety briefing might be a good idea - and don't let late arrivals on track without attending, period. Half hour late? Tough shit, ride after lunch.

That or do like a lot of car track days and have a licensing process whereby you are acknowledged as someone who knows their safety procedures and has a basic skillset. Obviously ride-alongs aren't practical for motorcycles, but maybe require a session wit a marshal observing you and safety test to get out of C group (racing license could allow this to be waived).

I'd actually really like to see the second regardless. On a 300, I'll never get into A group, and I'm heartily annoyed with some of the straight-line heroes I have to deal with in Bs who clearly don't belong there, but "I ride a Ducati and have pristine Dainese leathers, so I can't be amongst the common rabble." Can't wait for the OMRRA/OPRT days with a LW session!
ChopperDr likes this.
Apr 1st 2018, 09:09 AM   #15
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
So let's pretend there is this private pilot. He keeps his plane at the local small airport. One weekend he goes out to get some time doing what he loves: recreational flying. He arrives a little later in the morning but there are other planes already flying. There are clouds and some wind but he is so anxious to jump into his plane that he doesn't bother to check the weather.

The take off and landing cycles are challenging but other pilots are doing fine with their rotations, concentrating on the crosswords and paying attention to their airspeed and pitch. Our hero comes in a little too hard and does a bit of a pogo stick landing. He over corrects and lands on one wheel, the nose twisting to the left and one of the wheels clips a runway light. The plane tips on its side. The pilot is strapped in but sustains a broken leg. He sues the airstrip owner for having the lights too close to the runway. He sues anyone who had anything to do with the weather forecast. Potential damages could run into the millions if he wins. The lawyer gets one third of the settlement if they win their case. Insurance rates rise. The private airport closes. Other pilots suffer more expense at more distant airports. Some sell their planes.

A different guy has a boat moored at Lake Washington. Well....you get the idea.

Oh, and a side note: Thanks to a good year, the lawyer buys a Cessna and has it painted to match his sailboat.
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