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May 13th 2019, 05:02 PM   #16
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Complaining about taxes. How original.

The OP leaves out the part of this bill that GIVES tax breaks for the purchase personal and commercial EVs, begins the process to BUILD a recharge infrastructure, all to reduce toxic gases produced by burning for propulsive fuel. Why won't the legislature just let us destroy the planet in peace?




Brief Summary of HB 2042:

Makes permanent the Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Infrastructure grant program and expands eligibility to include hydrogen fueling station infrastructure.
Reinstates the alternative fuel vehicle retail sales and use tax exemption for vehicles priced at $45,000 or less, with the exemption applying to $32,000 of the vehicle price in the first two years, $24,000 in the second two years, and $16,000 in the third two years, and expands it to include used vehicles priced at $45,000 or less, with the exemption applying to $16,000 of the vehicle price for the duration of the exemption qualification period.
Raises the total registration renewal fee for alternative fuel vehicles from $150 to $200 for 10 years; uses $200 of the fee to fund alternative fuel vehicle sales and use tax incentives and the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure grant program for five years and uses $100 of the fee for these purposes after five years.
Extends, modifies, and expands to alternative fuel vehicle infrastructure the alternative fuel commercial vehicle business and occupation and public utility tax credit program.
Extends the EV battery and infrastructure sales and use tax exemption and expands it to include batteries sold as a component of electric buses and zero- emission buses.


Extends the leasehold excise tax exemption for public land used for the purpose of EV infrastructure.
Establishes a retail sales and use tax exemption for new powertrains for vessels that are powered by certain battery-powered electric propulsion systems and for vessels equipped with these powertrains.
Establishes a capital grant program to assist transit authorities in fleet electrification.
Establishes a technical assistance and education program on alternative fuel vehicles for public agencies within Washington State University's Extension Energy Program.
Establishes the authority of public utilities to offer electrification incentive programs, and amends provisions authorizing investor-owned utilities' incentive rate of return on investments in EV supply equipment.
Establishes an alternative fuel car sharing pilot grant program to support car sharing for underserved communities and lower income workforce members.
Authorizes the Department of Commerce to conduct a study on reducing barriers to EV adoption by lower income residents of the state through the use of financing assistance.
It does not GIVE "alternative fuel vehicle retail sales and use tax exemption". It "Reinstates" them. We already HAD them.

"begins the process to BUILD a recharge infrastructure" does not need this tax, and is not being paid from it, it will happen by private capital.

It looks like "the legislature just let us destroy the planet" by DISINTEVIZING electric vehicle ownership through higehr annual fees, with you guys cheering in the background because it is GOVERNMENT so everyone who criticizes it must be a right wing nut who wants to destroy the planet just out of spite.
May 13th 2019, 05:05 PM   #17
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishil54
The gas tax revenue was pretty much lost with EV, so they had to do something to regain that tax revenue.

Don't steal as the government hates the competition...
Which was the part of the incentivizing the ownership of electric vehicles. They could raise the gas tax to compensate for the (paltry) loss.
May 13th 2019, 05:07 PM   #18
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
I like how the OP, via his follow-up comments, makes snarky comments about one party, taxes and governance, while also making it abundantly clear that he DID NOT READ the entire bill before he decided to let us all know how uninformed are his views.
I've read it very well. You've read it too, but you didn't understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Take a deep breath, walk out to the curb of your street, take a 360 view your surroundings, the realize virtually EVERYTHING you see which is man-made is the result of our governance and tax-paid infrastructure.

If you don't know why my above statement is true, then please learn why,.
I am in Seattle. No curb. Beautiful well built private houses. Beautiful well built private cars in front of them. Chip seal paved road. Barbaric 19th century exlectric fixtures on the poles. The contrast could not be more clear.
May 13th 2019, 08:05 PM   #19
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
My street doesn't have a curb. And when I do a 360 the only man-made things created by the government are roads and the utility poles. Everything else was built by hardworking individuals. The beauty of not living in the city.
Built by hard-working individuals.

The UBC that keeps your house standing following a 7.2 earthquake, while tens of thousands of home collapse in Turkey and Nicaragua following a 6.5 . . our codes were written by hard-working civil servants, enforced by hardworking civil servants.

Same for the power grid, same for the roads, same for the ditch that flanks your curb-less street.

So I'm glad you can see all that, even in a remote rural village. South Kitsap Peninsula has paved roads. Courtesy of the tax revenues from the urban density and value-added economy of Western Puget Sound's metropolis. You're welcome.

LiberPolly. Explain to me why your house is "well-built." The altruism of the builder? Or don't explain it, and keep displaying your monumental ignorance and willful neglect of the facts.

Edited by FireDave on May 13th 2019 at 08:08 PM
May 13th 2019, 10:31 PM   #20
 MikeMikeMike's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Seattle

The things I purchase are well built because I have numerous choices. Altruism is not required when sellers have to compete for buyers. Self interest motivates the sellers and builders to make a good product. To focus on a single counter example... The USSR had plenty of civil servants, infinite red tape and regulation, and still churned out the shittiest cars imaginable.
May 13th 2019, 11:38 PM   #21
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Which was the part of the incentivizing the ownership of electric vehicles. They could raise the gas tax to compensate for the (paltry) loss.
Paltry?

WSDOT projects $3.2 Billion in fuel tax for 2017-2019 biennium.

So to say fuel tax is paltry is a bit of a misnomer.
May 13th 2019, 11:42 PM   #22
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
LiberPolly. Explain to me why your house is "well-built." The altruism of the builder?
A combination of competitive forces, industry's standards, and government standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Or don't explain it, and keep displaying your monumental ignorance and willful neglect of the facts.
So far, you are demonstrating the "monumental ignorance and willful neglect of the facts". I replied to your previous feeble attempt at condescention, guess it was too much for you to deal with and you chose to sidetrack the conversation into the discussion of general usefulness of government?

Well, government is useful, to a limit. In this case it is useful to tax things we want less of, and not to tax things we want more of. You would claim you want more electric vehicles, yet cheer on government to taxing electric vehicles. How is this not "monumental ignorance and willful neglect of the facts"?
VeritasImageryNW likes this.
May 13th 2019, 11:42 PM   #23
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMikeMike
The things I purchase are well built because I have numerous choices. Altruism is not required when sellers have to compete for buyers. Self interest motivates the sellers and builders to make a good product. To focus on a single counter example... The USSR had plenty of civil servants, infinite red tape and regulation, and still churned out the shittiest cars imaginable.
And even shittier houses. I can tell some stories over a beer...
May 13th 2019, 11:46 PM   #24
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
Paltry?

WSDOT projects $3.2 Billion in fuel tax for 2017-2019 biennium.

So to say fuel tax is paltry is a bit of a misnomer.
"Paltry" here is referred to the part of this tax that will be lost due to electric vehicles not needing gas. Last year, there was about 4% of electric vehicles in our state. Which would make it a bit over 100 million dollars lost over two years, or 50 million annually - to save the Earth from the impeding catastrophe. For the economy of our state's size, this is pocket change.

Edited by liberpolly on May 13th 2019 at 11:50 PM
May 13th 2019, 11:52 PM   #25
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

So how do you propose they fund things like road maintenance if tomorrow all the vehicles on the road were electric? WDOT just lost 34% of their budget. Gotta start phasing in those new taxes.
May 13th 2019, 11:56 PM   #26
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
So how do you propose they fund things like road maintenance if tomorrow all the vehicles on the road were electric? WDOT just lost 34% of their budget. Gotta start phasing in those new taxes.
"if tomorrow all the vehicles on the road were electric" - or even over the half - the goal will be accomplished, and they can start taxing them any way they wish, per mile or per weight, or just tax the damn tires for all I care. It's not like people are going to go back to ICE when there are next to none gas stations left.
May 14th 2019, 07:08 AM   #27
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Or you know, subsidies and tax breaks for $100k+ cars kind of look like a tax break for the rich.

Leaf and Bolt didn't sell for crap compared to the Model S.
May 14th 2019, 11:00 AM   #28
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
Or you know, subsidies and tax breaks for $100k+ cars kind of look like a tax break for the rich.

Leaf and Bolt didn't sell for crap compared to the Model S.
That's why tax breaks cap at $45K
the alternative fuel vehicle retail sales and use tax exemption for vehicles priced at $45,000 or less, with the exemption applying to $32,000 of the vehicle price in the first two years, $24,000 in the second two years, and $16,000 in the third two years, and expands it to include used vehicles priced at $45,000 or less, with the exemption applying to $16,000 of the vehicle price for the duration of the exemption qualification period
May 14th 2019, 11:17 AM   #29
 tod701's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stanwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
WDOT just lost 34% of their budget.
Please explain.
May 14th 2019, 11:20 AM   #30
 
  Apr 2016
  WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by tod701
Please explain.
If tomorrow there was no revenue from fuel tax. Fuel tax is 34% of WSDOT's budget.
Reply

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