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Jan 29th 2019, 07:24 PM   #106
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
OK, since those know me recognize that I am an advocate for both red meat and internal combustion, not to mention capitalism, I will say that electric motorcycles and bicycles are interesting. Kind of like autonomous cars are interesting, but not my cup of (organic) tea...whatever that is. And considering that the topics herein have been all over the map, i would like to throw in a friendly jab. So, Vaun, remember that ride down by Sweet Home and the battery problem that resulted in us motoring back to Multnomah? We had lunch at that brew pub on Capitol Highway there in the village. You didn't eat veggie back then as I recall.


Still count you as a friend though.
Jan 29th 2019, 07:44 PM   #107
 Lena's Avatar
Forum Admin
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  Monsters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Yep. Just me in my bubble.

The Lancet Commission coined a new term for the convergence of the effects of our animal product/processed food diet, malnutrition, obesity and global heating: syndemic.

"The report emphasizes that the issues are indeed linked. Climate change results in severe droughts, which can lead to a scarcity of food as well as higher prices for available fruits and vegetables. That pushes consumers toward processed foods, which are cheaper — and can contribute to a lack of proper nutrition. And farming definitely has a carbon footprint."

...

"The report recommends a series of actions that the authors hope could act in concert to address the problems. Chief among them is a worldwide treaty to regulate Big Food like Big Tobacco, limiting the political influence of the food and beverage industry. It would be modeled on the World Health Organization's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, the world's first public health treaty. The report also suggests a tax on red meat, which is associated with an increased risk of obesity and greenhouse gas emissions."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...e-3-big-crises

And using the opinion piece from an Anthony Bourdain-type food-industry spokeperson/advocate in an extreme right wing newspaper is probably not the most even-handed source on the subject of eating habits.
You completely missed my point. True, I didn't do research, just tried to remember where I saw that and if you Google meat consumption in US in 2018, about 15 links come up and all say the same thing. Don't go political on me, it doesn't matter if the source is right or left wing, I am taking facts - that in 2018 it went up, not down, according to Dept of Agriculture. You are taking predictions and recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
OK, since those know me recognize that I am an advocate for both red meat and internal combustion, not to mention capitalism, I will say that electric motorcycles and bicycles are interesting. Kind of like autonomous cars are interesting, but not my cup of (organic) tea...whatever that is. And considering that the topics herein have been all over the map, i would like to throw in a friendly jab. So, Vaun, remember that ride down by Sweet Home and the battery problem that resulted in us motoring back to Multnomah? We had lunch at that brew pub on Capitol Highway there in the village. You didn't eat veggie back then as I recall.


Still count you as a friend though.
Hey, this thread is all over the place and my point was it seems we have the same issue with food, modes of transportation and probably a lot more. The scientists are alarmed about both and recommend this and that and people do as they please - eat more meat and drive or ride what they want. It seems we can't help ourselves, must be the short life span issue - speaking in relative terms.

Full disclosure, I very rarely eat red meat and sometimes drive an electric vehicle that maybe is saving the planet but it's crap.
Jan 29th 2019, 08:29 PM   #108
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Hey, Jeff. I was definitely vegetarian then. I have been veg since my twenties. I did eat dairy.

At the Lucky Lab we ate at, I likely ate a slice of pizza or their hummus plate (which is vegan). I ate mostly veggie burgers when on a ride and we would stop at restaurants. I have been totally plant for five years. And getting rid of the dairy made a huge difference in my health. Bigger than quitting meat.
Jan 29th 2019, 09:07 PM   #109
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I got your point about American and possibly other nation meat consumption being up. The Lancet article addressed some of that, like the huge subsidies given for the foodstuffs of livestock and the ability for the industry to externalize its devastating health and environmental costs, keeping the cost artificially low the way the fossil fuel industry has to compete against renewables. (Gee, I wonder if gas consumption is up because people love the smell of gas so much? Or maybe it is because there is no affordable alternative?)

And there are many more reasons, like our government being in the employ of the dairy and meat industries directly promoting egg, cheese, milk, chicken, fish, pork and beef. Working to get fast food and dairy products into schools. Hedging the facts in nutritional recommendations to protect the animal producers rather than consumers. (Canada for the first time relied on scientists rather than lobbyists for their food plate this year and no where does milk or meat appear. Surprise, surprise.)

The author in your story took a snapshot out of context. She did not look at the trend, with the rising popularity of vegetarian choices. And meat substitutes are only getting started. The price is usually at least twice as much as beef at this point. So of course a purchase is more about experimentation than as competition at this point.

One other thing is half of America is obese or overweight. We are eating hundreds more calories a day now than we used to even a decade ago. Much of this over eating is cheap meat products and processed food. So that alone could account for the increase. The fat we eat is the fat we wear. And again, it is the cheapness and the way food scientists and marketers manipulate us. Perhaps what increasing meat consumption indicates is addiction more than preference.

Edited by Transported on Jan 29th 2019 at 09:43 PM
Jan 30th 2019, 12:48 AM   #110
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Silly me, and here I thought people eat meat because it tastes better.

And maybe because people go on keto diets and actually lose weight. Government recommended intake of carbs is probably what caused the diabetes epidemics...
Jan 30th 2019, 06:46 AM   #111
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I have said it above already: eating meat is choosing to destroy our health, the planet and cause billions of animals to live horrible lives and worse deaths for a flavor. As Paul McCartney said, if slaughter houses had windows, we’d all be vegans. What you don’t know does hurt you, and the animal products industry wants to keep it that way.

As for Keto: any diet that cuts out water-holding carbs is going to shed water fast. The average person loses about ten pounds of water the first week or so. And any diet that prescribes a deficit of 400 to 500 calories a day is going to lead to a pound of weight loss a week. But how long can someone deny themselves that many calories long term? Thus it is another YOYO diet. And US News and World Report again this year rated it one of the worst diets because it is very difficult to comply with and it is also not nutritionally sound.

Keto essentially doubles-down on the issues of animal consumption, calling for 80%+ of calories from mostly saturated fats. Worse for your health, more destructive of the planet, and more animals abused. It is a lose-lose-lose situation.
Jan 30th 2019, 07:18 AM   #112
bcj
 bcj's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  teh rock

  K1200RS SV650
30k ...

yeah, no.
Jan 30th 2019, 08:32 AM   #113
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
The government recommended less fats, especially saturated fats. What the food industry did with that edict was what caused the problem. They made foods that cut out fat but boosted the sugars so the product had the same empty calories. The excess calories were stored as fat. And of course the food industry could now brag it was 1/3 less fat, so you could eat twice as much (suckers).

And we went to 2% or lower milk, but then doubled our cheese consumption as the government had to help the dairy industry offload all that excess milk. “Cheese glorious cheese.” Put it on everything, we were told.
Jan 30th 2019, 02:37 PM   #114
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
The government recommended less fats, especially saturated fats. What the food industry did with that edict was what caused the problem.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1023915818486451160
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-food-pyramid/
Jan 30th 2019, 03:23 PM   #115
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
The Scientific American article is from 2006, very dated and under the sway of that era’s funny notions of nutrition. For a science rag, it is laughable that they call simple and processed carbohydrates “complex,” when they are the opposite of complex. Complex is whole fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes. Pasta, rice, potatoes, bread is not complex.

I was not able to read the WSJ article because I don’t have a subscription to it. But it is dated 2012 and is talking about the same dated food pyramids that were under the influence of meat and dairy and to a lesser degree sugar lobbyists.

I don’t know what your point is. If anything, you are making my points about how the industry manipulates to get its way regulatorily, and then undermines nutrition understanding further with marketing their money making products to confused consumers.
Jan 30th 2019, 04:39 PM   #116
 Akdawg's Avatar
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Well kids, I recall buying a Texas Instrument calculator for my job, $500 in 1975 dollars, to replace my slide rule. Frame of reference-a new Triumph Bonneville was around $1500. You can now get a device with 100x (or more?) capability for a couple cereal box tops. The price will come down as the technology evolves... I'll be clipping on playing cards to rub on the spokes again...
Jan 31st 2019, 03:10 AM   #117
 Mudslinger's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Seabeck

  Africa Twin
While not as good looking and priced around $13 grand the more competition the better. Top speed of 62mph.



https://electrek.co/2019/01/30/cake-...orcycle-legal/
Jan 31st 2019, 10:11 AM   #118
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...e-3-big-crises

And using the opinion piece from an Anthony Bourdain-type food-industry spokeperson/advocate in an extreme right wing newspaper is probably not the most even-handed source on the subject of eating habits.
And using an extremely progressive, left wing new source is?
Jan 31st 2019, 10:21 AM   #119
 VeritasImageryNW's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Allyn, WA

  '06 HD Street Bob, '85 Yamaha FJ600, '99 Honda CBR600f4
This whole thread makes me want to jump on my Harley and ride down and get a big, fat, juicy hamburger and fries. Then take my F150 (with American flags) out on some dirt roads, kicking up mud and playing very loud country music.

Man, I remember when motorcycles were ridden by MEN.
liberpolly and Flyboymedic like this.
Jan 31st 2019, 12:40 PM   #120
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
And using an extremely progressive, left wing new source is?
What source is that? The peer-reviewed Lancet scientific journal and the working group created by it?

[I forgot, logic and science (i.e., reality) has a strong liberal bias.] 😅
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