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Jan 17th 2019, 09:19 AM   #76
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
And electric vehicles are going to completely supplant petrol within the decade, if we are to survive.
Not if we keep charging them by burning natural gas.
Jan 17th 2019, 09:39 AM   #77
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Not if we keep charging them by burning natural gas.
Utility turbines and their management are remarkably unlike a reciprocating piston engine under the hood managed by your right foot. Even taking into account line and battery chemistry losses,

“The national average is 4,815 pounds of CO2-equivalent emissions for a typical EV per year as compared to the average gasoline-powered car which produces 11,435 pounds of CO2-equivalent emissions annually.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19...missions-myth/

Edit: Let's sew up a loophole before anyone pounces on it: since "per year" doesn't say in so many words "equal miles driven", here's a per-mile carbon calculator: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...emissions-tool

Edited by WarpShatner7 on Jan 17th 2019 at 09:42 AM
Jan 17th 2019, 10:40 AM   #78
 motoroco's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Redmond, WA

  2015 Versys 650, 2018 Ducati Monster 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Harley is more akin to Tesla, if they manage to pull the PR right.
That's an interesting comparison. In my head, I always thought of Zero as the Tesla of motorcycles.

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
Jan 17th 2019, 11:27 AM   #79
 Mudslinger's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Seabeck

  Africa Twin
I like where this company is headed with the "Strike" http://lightningmotorcycle.com

The Lightning Strike will be capable of hitting a top speed of 150 mph (241 km/h). The Strike should also feature a range of 150 miles (241 km). 35 minute DC fast charging.

price: $12,998. Harley wont be able to touch them with their $30k bike.
Jan 17th 2019, 01:44 PM   #80
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I am surprised anyone these days does not understand that even burning natural gas to create electricity to run an electric vehicle is way more efficient and clean than using the fossil fuel to run the vehicle. For Tesla, they estimate it is equivalent to a little over a dollar a gallon, in gasoline terms.

And, if you are a concerned consumer, you are surely already paying a little more to have the equivalent of the utility gas and electricity you use generated with wind and solar (offsets), which means all of the power you use is clean and your electric vehicle is zero emissions.
Jan 17th 2019, 02:38 PM   #81
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

It's a digression because I'm not at all on board with this notion that electric is infeasible without nuclear, but I'm actually not opposed to nuclear in principle, only in practice thanks to of two or three generations of absolutely consistent deception, corruption and a confusion of purposes at every level.

I would be absolutely on board with adding nuclear to the mix of power, if the plans and program -- including an exhaustive analysis of the end-to-end fuel and waste lifecycle -- were developed to modern standards and submitted for review, with full veto powers, to an independent board made up of physicists, engineers, geologists and genuine, licensed and practicing health and safety experts -- i.e. not shills or flacks or for that matter new-age homeopaths hastily given a "health and safety expert" badge -- who had been vetted for conflicts of interest.

And the chances of that happening in real life are zero.
Jan 17th 2019, 03:42 PM   #82
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
I am surprised anyone these days does not understand that even burning natural gas to create electricity to run an electric vehicle is way more efficient and clean than using the fossil fuel to run the vehicle.
Everybody understands that, what you don't seem to understand is that this is still not enough to reverse the rising CO2 levels.
Jan 17th 2019, 03:43 PM   #83
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslinger
I like where this company is headed with the "Strike" http://lightningmotorcycle.com

The Lightning Strike will be capable of hitting a top speed of 150 mph (241 km/h). The Strike should also feature a range of 150 miles (241 km). 35 minute DC fast charging.

price: $12,998. Harley wont be able to touch them with their $30k bike.
Err... it says "Retail price starts at $38,888 USD."?

Edit - never mind, took a while to load a mystery headline picture...
Jan 17th 2019, 08:19 PM   #84
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Omfg
Jan 20th 2019, 01:26 PM   #85
 Lena's Avatar
Forum Admin
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  Monsters
What a fascinating and derailed thread. Drazen, your posts were the fascinating part, I appreciate you sharing some insights, coming from you, I tend to believe those. I agree the battery pack is the way of the future, it's the matter of when, with a few hurdles to solve in the meantime.

To speak to the derailed part - there is a new diet (not that new really) that is supposed to save the planet, except I don't see a suggestion how to convince the 10bn to switch:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46865204
Jan 20th 2019, 03:36 PM   #86
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Eating plants as the solution to myriad problems is nothing new. But getting meat out of production to curb global heating is finally occuring to people. (Slow learners.)

The key to the report is not how to convince people to eat almost no meat, but that we will never be able to feed the 10B people we are expanding to unless we switch to plant-based diets. Nor can we prevent the earth from incinerating or species to be driven to extinction.

The choice: civilization as we know it and possibly an uninhabitable planet, or a flavor we covet?
Jan 20th 2019, 04:08 PM   #87
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  N Idaho

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Eating plants as the solution to myriad problems is nothing new. But getting meat out of production to curb global heating is finally occuring to people. (Slow learners.)

The key to the report is not how to convince people to eat almost no meat, but that we will never be able to feed the 10B people we are expanding to unless we switch to plant-based diets. Nor can we prevent the earth from incinerating or species to be driven to extinction.

The choice: civilization as we know it and possibly an uninhabitable planet, or a flavor we covet?
I agree with the plant based diet solution, provided we have enough pollinators to make it work, which some say are on a rapid decline due to climate change.
So we have to do something to end this vicious circle.

I would rather have the HD with a V-rod or Buell motor for now, but I would do the electric for an around town bike, even for 30G's, isn't a Fat Glide around 20 anyway? I can remember when the first car CD players cost around 700 1980 dollars and skipped if you sneezed. We have to start somewhere.
Jan 20th 2019, 07:54 PM   #88
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Off the subject?

The question is whether Harley has a future in the non-internal combustion era we are entering. It is probably not really whether they can make a decent electric bike, but whether it will be accepted by consumers. Because Harley, more than perhaps any brand, has relied on a persona. The question is: Can that persona exist when its platform disappears?
Jan 21st 2019, 07:27 AM   #89
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2013 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Harlequin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Off the subject?

The question is whether Harley has a future in the non-internal combustion era we are entering. It is probably not really whether they can make a decent electric bike, but whether it will be accepted by consumers. Because Harley, more than perhaps any brand, has relied on a persona. The question is: Can that persona exist when its platform disappears?
you nailed it.

if HD is one thing, it is a BRAND.

It is not a motorcycle company.

the BRAND is uber specific, and is a bit like poor old Bob Denver - that motherfucker could NEVER, EVER be anyone but Gilligan, no matter how he tried.
Jan 21st 2019, 08:36 AM   #90
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
We humans - by and large - are slow to change, or plan for a far off goal. Be that our diet, what our wheels are powered by, or any other thing that takes planning and sacrifice now for future payoff.

I was reading a study on human brain evolution and it's link to anxiety in modern society. The main point of the study was that we are not good at mitigating issues that will be a problem many years down the road due to how our brains have been wired through couple of hundred millennia. This has mainly been brought on in the last couple of hundred years, by things that can not be immediately met, but require long planning and execution. For the most part - as a society - we've rotated off, I'm anxious over what I'll have to eat tonight and where I'll sleep, which can be quelled in short term, to things that are very prolonged. Our society and the way we function as a human race can have an exponentially fast rate of change, but the way we've evolved to meet certain adversities is extremely slow.

I hope that we are not too late due to our resistance to change. Our future generations will have to live and deal with what we do now.
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