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Jan 9th 2019, 01:52 PM   #61
DGA
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
It's right there in the article:

“Bluntly, wind turbines onshore and offshore still cost too much and wear out far too quickly to offer the developing world a realistic alternative to coal.”

There are more articles to that effect if you want me to google them for you.



We've already established that fossil fuels must be replaced, the question is with what?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-replacement-/
the U.S. fleet of nuclear power plants will likely run for another 50 or even 70 years before it is retired -- long past the 40-year life span planned decades ago -- according to industry executives, regulators and scientists.

By the article you site you can make anything run forever by repairing it and being proactive and if you let something slip into ruin...it will not run as intended...ha ha ha...no shit?

Quote:
"We think we can replace almost every component in a nuclear power plant," said Jan van der Lee, director of the Materials Ageing Institute (MAI), a nuclear research facility inaugurated this week in France and run by the state-owned nuclear giant EDF.

"We don't want to wait until something breaks," he said. By identifying components that are wearing down and replacing them, he said, suddenly nuclear plants will find that "technically, there is no age limit."
Do they list what an upkeep and operations of a nuclear plant is yearly vs a wind turbine plant would be?
Jan 9th 2019, 02:04 PM   #62
DGA
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
President Carter was, famously, an idiot. And, the most promising breeding cycle is based on thorium and cannot be weaponized:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121028...en-system.html
He's far from an idiot and really proven correct simply by fuck-ups of plant operations at Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. At least two of these have rendered the land they were around unlivable for generations to come.

Nuclear waste is still an issue even with a Breeder reactor. Even though it produces a smaller amount of waste, it all needs to be stored accordingly once spent, guaranteeing that the site will be there for generations to come simply to store spent fuel.
Jan 9th 2019, 02:55 PM   #63
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
By the article you site you can make anything run forever by repairing it and being proactive and if you let something slip into ruin...it will not run as intended...ha ha ha...no shit?
And if you do, it will cost even more per kW and require even higher subsidies.
Jan 9th 2019, 02:58 PM   #64
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
He's far from an idiot and really proven correct simply by fuck-ups of plant operations at Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. At least two of these have rendered the land they were around unlivable for generations to come.

Nuclear waste is still an issue even with a Breeder reactor. Even though it produces a smaller amount of waste, it all needs to be stored accordingly once spent, guaranteeing that the site will be there for generations to come simply to store spent fuel.
Chernobyl was a typical Soviet fuck up and their utter disregard to human lives and nature - I know, I lived there.

Fukushima sounds like the reactor was being used way past the deadline for dismantling or major overhaul. It is also that technology that goes berserk when disconnected from the power, while modern reactors just shut down and cool down in this case (passive safety). It is also unwise to build a reactor on a coast in a tsunami zone...
Jan 10th 2019, 05:40 AM   #65
DGA
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Chernobyl was a typical Soviet fuck up and their utter disregard to human lives and nature - I know, I lived there.

Fukushima sounds like the reactor was being used way past the deadline for dismantling or major overhaul. It is also that technology that goes berserk when disconnected from the power, while modern reactors just shut down and cool down in this case (passive safety). It is also unwise to build a reactor on a coast in a tsunami zone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
And if you do, it will cost even more per kW and require even higher subsidies.
Honestly, what it comes down to is what the rate payers want and that is always closely coupled with cost and being environmentally conscious. Standing up and running a nuclear reactor power plant is EXTREMELY expensive. And there is quite a bit of stigma when it comes to nuclear. For instance we can't just build a plant. Public Utility Commission is there to steer what we do in the best interest of the rate payer and ultimately the entity a utility answers and works through.

If you even discount what type of fuel a large plant would use, the old electrical flow model of large plant to transmission line to substation to distribution and ultimately customer is gone. There is so much back feed into the system from roof top solar, large scale solars, wind, little co-gen plants, etc., that constructing a large plant for base line generation is nearly unfeasible. We'll never build another 500 MW plant in our system for base generation. Only things that you might see are fast spin-up (5-6 minutes to full generation load), liquid and gas fueled, peaker plants that will fill gaps in load when needed; with about 300 MW of capability at full tilt.

Additionally, industry growth has flattened out. I can tell you looking at couple of large companies forecast sheets that the yearly growth they are looking at, right now, are 1-2%. This line has seriously flattened from 5-10 years ago. They don't want to invest in a large scale plant project. Instead they'll fill their load with smaller generation that is one part on demand and one part renewable.

I do think there is a place for nuclear energy, SSTAR reactors come to mind. Small, scalable, no moving parts, completely self contained and can be deployed at much, much, lower costs than a typical plant. Oregon State University has a patent for one and Fujitsu (I think) has a patent for another. They are meant to be buried and only thing that comes out of the ground is the power cable.

TLDR; This whole thing is really a complicated subject with a lot of moving variables. I'd like to ride the new HD and see what it's about.
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Edited by DGA on Jan 10th 2019 at 05:43 AM
Jan 10th 2019, 10:37 AM   #66
 
  Mar 2018
  Gig Harbor

  2008 BMW R1200GS Adventure
But how will the HD riders put louds pipes on it?

How will they the engine 87 times when they start it (just to make sure it's actually started)?
Jan 11th 2019, 05:27 AM   #67
DGA
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Just in...the new LiveWire will set you back $29,799 for a 2020 model. I'm not sure if that includes freight.

A bit steep, but I imagine development costs and more than likely limited sales drive that number.

Since this is nearly the price of a base Model 3 - after driving one, that car is a game changer - I'm very curious to see it's battery, motor, controller, traction control, etc., specs.
Jan 11th 2019, 09:36 AM   #68
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Eastside Harley is taking $2500 refundable deposits now
Jan 11th 2019, 10:45 AM   #69
 Naza's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Rent'n

  2002 Honda RC51, 2005 Honda RC51
I debated on starting a new thread, but to keep with the electric theme.

https://www.pcmag.com/feature/365882...-of-ces-2019/7

It appears automakers are not just going all in electric in 2020, but autonomous as well.

BTW, love the BMW
Jan 11th 2019, 01:54 PM   #70
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
I am reminded of reading about a time, a little more than a hundred years ago when those who rode horseback and utilized carriages and wagons lamented the arrival of the automobile (and the motorcycle too, probably). Cities were dealing with sanitation problems from horse excrement instead of today's carbon emissions. It was a changing tide. I can identify with that feeling though. I am excited by neither electric nor autonomous vehicles. I do appreciate my car with its safety and technological advances but I also have an older car with roll up windows, no GPS, cruise control, back-up cameras, nor airbags. And I love it more. I fit the definition of a Luddite.
Jan 11th 2019, 02:01 PM   #71
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T
I am reminded of reading about a time, a little more than a hundred years ago when those who rode horseback and utilized carriages and wagons lamented the arrival of the automobile (and the motorcycle too, probably). Cities were dealing with sanitation problems from horse excrement instead of today's carbon emissions. It was a changing tide. I can identify with that feeling though. I am excited by neither electric nor autonomous vehicles. I do appreciate my car with its safety and technological advances but I also have an older car with roll up windows, no GPS, cruise control, back-up cameras, nor airbags. And I love it more. I fit the definition of a Luddite.
it's just more visceral, nothing to do with being a Luddite. I appreciate all the gizmos in my Ducati and wouldn't mind a few more, even; but it is that visceral enjoyment of a roaring, sputtering monster of an engine that makes me ride even when it's not practical to do so.
Jan 11th 2019, 06:44 PM   #72
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  KTM SAR Husqvarna Strada, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
it's just more visceral, nothing to do with being a Luddite. I appreciate all the gizmos in my Ducati and wouldn't mind a few more, even; but it is that visceral enjoyment of a roaring, sputtering monster of an engine that makes me ride even when it's not practical to do so.
I agree about the fun of having an engine between your legs that would be happy to kill you if given the chance. My KTM has that same visceral effect on me. It is as addicting as any drug.

However...

I was able to ride the Ural electric sidecar and the 2019 gas back to back. (to all you people who bitch about Harley getting dumped on by other riders, try owning a Ural!)

The gas version made me smile. The electric made me laugh out loud. I felt like George F'ing Jetson!

No way is it ready for prime time, with only 100 miles of range, but those 100 miles would be freaking fun! I threw my wallet at them none the less. Fortunately for my marriage, they told me it was not for sale.

Now keep in mind, my 2011 Patrol only gets around 130 miles per tank, but it only takes 3 minutes to fill up.

When they figure the batteries out and give them 200 plus miles of range and a short recharge time of 30 minutes or less, any electric vehicle will just be an expensive novelty commuter.

Dusty
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Jan 16th 2019, 06:34 AM   #73
 MotoDan's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Olympia

  2014 KTM 690 / BMW R1150 GS
A- President Carter is more intelligent then all of us put together..
B- All the younger riders wont remember, the 3 mile island U.S. Melt Down.
C- Electric sex toys ✔����
Electric Vehicles = pipe dream
Jan 16th 2019, 08:29 AM   #74
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I was in a Pennsylvania high school before Three Mile Island and one of our more beatnik teachers had a collection of Skeptic magazines. The cover story about The China Syndrome caught my eye. I read all about the scientific conjecture that a complete melting down of a reactor was possible and even likely the way plants were run.

Within months of reading that article, Three Mile Island occurred. Holy Fuck, I thought.

As for Carter being smarter than us, I would have to agree. He actually had training in nuclear technology.

“Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, New York, where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf, the second nuclear submarine.”

Not some dumb hayseed farmer. He was set to be the admiral of the Navy when he went back to Georgia to run the family farm, when he got into politics.

And electric vehicles are going to completely supplant petrol within the decade, if we are to survive.
Jan 17th 2019, 05:40 AM   #75
DGA
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  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
As much as I like a great engine note, it bucking and snorting in anger at full tilt, I love pure unadulterated power more...

I got a chance to drive a Tesla P85 one day and 780 rear wheel horsepower ZR1 Corvette that same evening. How quickly the P85 accelerated made me sick to my stomach. Corvette being simply amazing, did not hold a candle to the P85 even with it's 335/25-20 sized tires in a straight line acceleration. Now try your hand with a P100D, things magnify even more.

As soon as that battery technology is figured out to deliver the convenience of a tank of gas, internal combustion cars as transportation will be decimated overnight.

Edited by DGA on Jan 17th 2019 at 05:43 AM
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