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Jan 8th 2019, 10:01 PM   #31
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Rider
ya mean, ya need to know how to ride?
I am a shitty rider, I'll take any life-saving aids I can get.

In all seriousness, have you actually *tried* an electric motorcycle? The torque is so immediate and immense, it sure like hell needs traction control.
Jan 8th 2019, 10:26 PM   #32
 MikeMikeMike's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Seattle

I haven’t ridden one yet, but seems like it would be pretty simple to program the throttle response to avoid abrupt applications of power. I like bikes that kill you quickly when you ride them poorly. Lots of cheap parts available.
Jan 8th 2019, 11:47 PM   #33
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I have been reading about global heating for more than 40 years, with more and more scientists putting out more and more urgent predictions and with seeing exactly the sort of events coming to pass they had been predicting. In fact, the reality is now far outpacing their worst predictions. Every few months they have to revise their predictions.

Exxon even predicted it going down exactly as it has back in the 1970s, but in the 1980s, they hid their studies and put out a disinformation campaign to keep the money rolling even if it would condemn people to a horrible apocalyptic future.
Jan 9th 2019, 12:13 AM   #34
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
I have been reading about global heating for more than 40 years, with more and more scientists putting out more and more urgent predictions and with seeing exactly the sort of events coming to pass they had been predicting. In fact, the reality is now far outpacing their worst predictions. Every few months they have to revise their predictions.

Exxon even predicted it going down exactly as it has back in the 1970s, but in the 1980s, they hid their studies and put out a disinformation campaign to keep the money rolling even if it would condemn people to a horrible apocalyptic future.
Yeah, the Arctic ice was supposed to disappear by what, 2014?

Anyway, I am asking again: are you working toward replacing fossil fuels with nuclear power?
Jan 9th 2019, 04:58 AM   #35
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
There are a couple of books out I have read that dispassionately explain how we can replace our carbon fuel with renewables, plus change our lifestyle to be less resource demanding and it doesn’t require 1000s of nuclear plants. Read Paul Hawkens’ Drawdown, if you want to find out about realistic options, many of which are being employed right now.

For example, nuclear is projected to be able to decrease carbon use 16 gigatons, while a plant-based diet would decrease carbon by 66 GT. It is the most effective way indviduals can fight global heating, with vegans contributing six times less carbon to the atmosphere than omnivores.

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank

Harping on nuclear as the only option is the old fuel industry tactic of inaction. It is saying we are fucked, so let’s do nothing, because we all know getting nuclear funded, approved, insured, etc. is unlikely. It tells you something about its failure that the government has to be the insurer of a plant as private insurers won’t touch them, to let us know how risky they are.

Edited by Transported on Jan 9th 2019 at 05:42 AM
Jan 9th 2019, 10:38 AM   #36
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
There are a couple of books out I have read that dispassionately explain how we can replace our carbon fuel with renewables, plus change our lifestyle to be less resource demanding and it doesn’t require 1000s of nuclear plants. Read Paul Hawkens’ Drawdown, if you want to find out about realistic options, many of which are being employed right now.

For example, nuclear is projected to be able to decrease carbon use 16 gigatons, while a plant-based diet would decrease carbon by 66 GT. It is the most effective way indviduals can fight global heating, with vegans contributing six times less carbon to the atmosphere than omnivores.

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank

Harping on nuclear as the only option is the old fuel industry tactic of inaction. It is saying we are fucked, so let’s do nothing, because we all know getting nuclear funded, approved, insured, etc. is unlikely. It tells you something about its failure that the government has to be the insurer of a plant as private insurers won’t touch them, to let us know how risky they are.
"getting nuclear funded, approved, insured, etc. is unlikely" only because environmentalists sue them to death. That's how we know they are not serious.

You know what's actually unlikely? Switching billions of people to veganism in time to avert the impending doom.

Which is funny because vegans still need electricity which is generated by burning coal, or if we're lucky, natural gas.
Jan 9th 2019, 10:40 AM   #37
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  N Idaho

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
There are a couple of books out I have read that dispassionately explain how we can replace our carbon fuel with renewables, plus change our lifestyle to be less resource demanding and it doesn’t require 1000s of nuclear plants. Read Paul Hawkens’ Drawdown, if you want to find out about realistic options, many of which are being employed right now.

For example, nuclear is projected to be able to decrease carbon use 16 gigatons, while a plant-based diet would decrease carbon by 66 GT. It is the most effective way indviduals can fight global heating, with vegans contributing six times less carbon to the atmosphere than omnivores.

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank

Harping on nuclear as the only option is the old fuel industry tactic of inaction. It is saying we are fucked, so let’s do nothing, because we all know getting nuclear funded, approved, insured, etc. is unlikely. It tells you something about its failure that the government has to be the insurer of a plant as private insurers won’t touch them, to let us know how risky they are.
I'm not sure being a vegan is allowed in North Idunno but this is a very good point.

Even if technology catches up fast enough we still have the much bigger problem of factory farming;

"Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation."
-Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.

And this is a problem that is making things worse exponentially;
"The mathematical model presented in this paper estimates that as many as one billion additional gallons of gasoline are consumed each year due to overweight and obesity in the US, accounting for up to 0.8% of the fuel consumed by these vehicles annually. "
-Transportation Research Part D: Transport and Environment

And there is not enough bandwidth on this forum to go into how many resourcs are poured into trying to solve health aspects of this problem that could be diverted to improving transportation and infrastructure.

So while we wait for imminent destruction I'll take one that looks exactly like the picture, except make mine a V-Rod motor sans electric nanny, it'll look awesome next to my LS1 and 12 valve Cummins.
Jan 9th 2019, 11:02 AM   #38
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
I'd be interested to see if you could get omnivores on to a vegan diet on a large scale without putting a gun to their head. I'm not kidding.

I think there are easier ways to go green and produce electricity than nuclear, coal, etc., with renewable technology that we have now. Solar, wind, hydro, thermal, micro-grids, battery storage, energy imbalance markets, etc. are already driving this. From someone that has worked in the electrical utility business for nearly couple of decades, we are already on the doorstep of this change and it'll come fast.

I for one welcome our electric engine overlords simply due to all that beautiful torque at zero RPM. One day we'll be telling our grand kids what the "loud pipes save lives" stickers were all about cause they'll simply not understand.
Jan 9th 2019, 11:43 AM   #39
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

My wife and I drive our cars so little that I have them both on battery tenders and keep them topped-up with ethanol-free and fuel stabilizer. The fact that we live in a modest house in the city rather than a sheetrock citadel in sprawlsville means between public transportation, bicycles and shank's mare the principal overhead of our cars is cleaning the algae and moss off them. That being the case I don't feel too terrible about the hundred-odd gallons of primordial forest squeezin's I run through the moto every year.

Edited by WarpShatner7 on Jan 9th 2019 at 11:46 AM
Jan 9th 2019, 11:51 AM   #40
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
I think there are easier ways to go green and produce electricity than nuclear, coal, etc., with renewable technology that we have now. Solar, wind, hydro, thermal, micro-grids, battery storage, energy imbalance markets, etc. are already driving this. From someone that has worked in the electrical utility business for nearly couple of decades, we are already on the doorstep of this change and it'll come fast.
I highly doubt that. All those renewables except solar are a pipe dream currently, and the solar has an unfortunate dependency on the time of day and weather, and ramping up production will take some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
I for one welcome our electric engine overlords simply due to all that beautiful torque at zero RPM. One day we'll be telling our grand kids what the "loud pipes save lives" stickers were all about cause they'll simply not understand.
I do believe that motorcycles will be the last holdout among ICE vehicles.
Jan 9th 2019, 11:53 AM   #41
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
Even if technology catches up fast enough we still have the much bigger problem of factory farming;

"Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation."
-Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.

And this is a problem that is making things worse exponentially;
"The mathematical model presented in this paper estimates that as many as one billion additional gallons of gasoline are consumed each year due to overweight and obesity in the US, accounting for up to 0.8% of the fuel consumed by these vehicles annually. "
-Transportation Research Part D: Transport and Environment
Both of those can be easily solved with nuclear energy.
Jan 9th 2019, 12:11 PM   #42
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  N Idaho

  Yamaha 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Both of those can be easily solved with nuclear energy.
It isn't nuclear energy I'm concerned with, its mismanagement.

Even the best engineering solutions to these problems have to be anchored with corporate or government responsibility. Both gigantic indefensible ox-moron's.

I will be very curious (and optimistic so nobody get their shorts twisted!) to see if HD can pull this off. Personally I think this is what the 2019 Buell should have looked like.
Jan 9th 2019, 12:26 PM   #43
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Both of those can be easily solved with nuclear energy.
Define easily. Better yet, let's let the MIT Technology Review do it.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...nuclear-power/

It's not a no-brainer or a slam dunk. Without government subsidy which, like much of the oil industry and frankly much of our military spending, is all about building the supply chains to support the ability to express global military power, it's at best part of a potential mix of solutions, and by no means the most cost effective one.
Jan 9th 2019, 12:35 PM   #44
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGA
I'd be interested to see if you could get omnivores on to a vegan diet on a large scale without putting a gun to their head. I'm not kidding.

I think there are easier ways to go green and produce electricity than nuclear, coal, etc., with renewable technology that we have now. Solar, wind, hydro, thermal, micro-grids, battery storage, energy imbalance markets, etc. are already driving this. From someone that has worked in the electrical utility business for nearly couple of decades, we are already on the doorstep of this change and it'll come fast.

I for one welcome our electric engine overlords simply due to all that beautiful torque at zero RPM. One day we'll be telling our grand kids what the "loud pipes save lives" stickers were all about cause they'll simply not understand.
I donít think we will have to make them decide on being plant based. I think it is clear the market is going that way fast. The Chinese are already incentivizing their polpulation to cut meat 10% and that is just a start. Employers are beginning to act to get their people to switch from not reimbursing for meat consumption to dings on healthcare expenses. It will be like cigs soon.

At the same time, companies are coming up with meat replacements that are acceptable to meat eaters while having none of the health, animal cruelty or environmental destruction downsides.

Finally, meat will just become too expensive once carbon use becomes a commodity, which it must soon.

And right. Plant eating is only a very salient example. Look over that Drawdown list I linked to see all the many ways we can fix this.
Jan 9th 2019, 12:50 PM   #45
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
I highly doubt that. All those renewables except solar are a pipe dream currently, and the solar has an unfortunate dependency on the time of day and weather, and ramping up production will take some time.
Very far from it. Drive to eastern Oregon and Washington to see the current status - you can't call it future anymore since it's been around for over a decade - in work and expanding. This is the scene you'll see all over the country.

Electrical utilities are pushed to look for renewable solutions instead of building new plants; this just happened to us. Even though we had permitting in hand, PUC asked for us to look for renewables to fill our load gap instead of building a new gas powered plant. We are shuttering our coal fired plant as well. This is simply consumer demand; clean energy.

When it comes to the electrical grid, we are all on one system from the Rockies to the Pacific, north to south border. It might not be sunny up here, but it certainly is somewhere else.

Energy is traded between utilities on a 15-minute basis, 24/7/52 for various reasons but mainly driven by monetary one. It can be cheaper for us to buy energy on the open market than spin up another turbine at one of our plants. There is so much solar generated in the summer and day time in southern states that they'll actually pay us to take some of it.

Also, molten energy solar storage plants are out there and one of the biggest in the nation and the world is on our grid, owned by Berkshire Hathway subsidiary, that will generate through the night. A molten slug/heat sync that will turn the water to steam through out the nigh and spin the turbines to your hearts content.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...th-24-7-power/

Writing has been on the wall for a while, no matter how much certain special interest groups tried to scrub it away. Simply, the time has come where certain industries can't keep their heads in the sand over how they conduct business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
I do believe that motorcycles will be the last holdout among ICE vehicles.
Highly doubtful. The only development there really is left to truly conquer is the battery pack. Everything else is here and some components have been around for decades if not over a century.
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