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Feb 3rd 2019, 09:22 AM   #136
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Either way, the entire argument is nonsensical. But Trump seldom cares about reality when he says or does things.
"the entire argument is nonsensical" is the liberal speak for "i lost the argument but loathe to admit it".
Feb 3rd 2019, 10:28 AM   #137
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMikeMike
The rest of NATO couldn't defend itself against Russian (a country with an economy smaller than Italy) and I'm not talking about after a few waves of hydrogen bombs. Russia has the conventional forces to invade all of Europe (sans US involvement) with tanks running through the Fulda Gap en masse and Migs sweeping the skies of Tornados and Euro Fighters.

Europe has transitioned away from military spending, because being a part of the US "empire" has no down side. We have more military personal deployed in Europe, than Germany has soldiers (~64k > 61k). The best part is they resent us for our military largess, despite that being the only thing keeping them free. They should be able to defend themselves, and that means they need to spend more money and enlist more soldiers. It will strain their already fragile budgets and result in tax increases for their already overburdened middle class, and austerity for their social welfare programs. But a stronger Europe will be a better partner in the long term, especially as China begins to look outward.

Right now the 500M people in the EU who makes $20T per year couldn't defend themselves from the 143M people in Russian who make $1.5T per year and that should not be our problem.
In all fairness, Russia is not likely to occupy Germany, France, or Italy - they know they don't have communist ideology anymore to try to control people, the industrial output will collapse under the occupation of the unhappy populace, and they have no natural resources to speak of.

Russians are after Baltic states, Ukraine, Moldova and Romania, and maybe Balkan states - for natural resources and access to the seas, and most likely would want to take away Norwegian sea oil production, maybe also take a bunch of Scandinavian islands in Northern seas and build naval bases there.

Germany, France, and Italy don't give a hoot about their less fortunate Eastern European brethren. They will be affected if that happens, but not to the extent that they could be bothered to spend their own money on the defense. They are banking on US in their naivete to continue shouldering most of the burden, since they are already committed to the world military dominance. There is no need for US to continue doing so, and that's what Trump is trying to change.
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Feb 3rd 2019, 01:51 PM   #138
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Russia has an economy about the size of New York State. It is a kleptocracy with nuclear weapons. Nothing more. I don’t think NATO feels threatened in any way, so long as Trump doesn’t destabilize it from within, which is what Putin lusts and is trying to effect.
Feb 3rd 2019, 05:18 PM   #139
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Russia has an economy about the size of New York State. It is a kleptocracy with nuclear weapons. Nothing more. I don’t think NATO feels threatened in any way, so long as Trump doesn’t destabilize it from within, which is what Putin lusts and is trying to effect.
So you agree with Trump that we should significantly cut our military expenses in Europe?
Feb 3rd 2019, 09:55 PM   #140
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I think we should dramatically cut our military everywhere. I think we would get a lot farther if we helped other nations with our nearly trillion dollars in military spending rather than killing them. Better to make allies than enemies.

And we could use some of that wasted money dealing with our own problems at home.
Feb 3rd 2019, 10:13 PM   #141
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
That sounds evasive. I asked specifically about Europe. Or are you physically unable to admit agreeing with Trump on anything?
Feb 4th 2019, 04:13 AM   #142
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Is this the electric HD thread or did I get redirected?
Feb 4th 2019, 05:05 AM   #143
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Harley may come out with an electric scooter.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/3/18...ames-prototype

Edited by Transported on Feb 4th 2019 at 05:08 AM
Feb 4th 2019, 05:31 AM   #144
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
If you are talking about wind turbines, turn out their lifespan is shorter than the time it takes them to recoup the costs. It's as much of environmental self-imposed disaster as the ethanol fuel.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...ays-study.html
Follow the money:

Here's an excerpt from your linked article:

"The report, published last week by the Renewable Energy Foundation (REF), a think tank that has campaigned against wind farms, will give ammunition to sceptics, especially within the Conservative Party, who believe the cost of subsidies to the wind industry is far too high and that the growing number of turbines are blighting the countryside."


Here's a link to an apparently more objective set of research:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/1429...y-claims-that/
Feb 4th 2019, 05:43 AM   #145
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasImageryNW
And using an extremely progressive, left wing new source is?
Is NPR progressive? Or left? Which? Two different things. Have you ever listened to NPR? The labels you apply here are repeated ad nauseum by the uninformed. Perhaps not you,

NPR: In-depth, focus is on human and ecological issues instead of the over-arching ubiquity of our corporate over-lord-sponsor of other outlets . . . that's not left, not liberal. It's truth told regarding the effects of issues on everyone, instead of only the profits of the wealthy.

Edited by FireDave on Feb 4th 2019 at 07:54 AM
Feb 4th 2019, 06:25 AM   #146
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
That sounds evasive. I asked specifically about Europe. Or are you physically unable to admit agreeing with Trump on anything?
Evasive? Not a bit.

I don’t think Trump has the intelligence to make a smart decision. He doesn’t read and he doesn’t listen to experts. He holds notions he picked up in the 1980s or Fox News.

http://time.com/5518947/donald-trump...onal-security/

His intention is not to make the world less armed but to increase US military spending while making other nations do the same. He wants everyone more armed.

Even if I did agree with Trump on principle on some issue, I do not trust he could carry it out appropriately. He is a universal fuckup. But he is a rich con man, which carries the day with weak-minded people.

Edited by Transported on Feb 4th 2019 at 09:01 AM
Feb 4th 2019, 09:37 AM   #147
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Evasive? Not a bit.

I don’t think Trump has the intelligence to make a smart decision. He doesn’t read and he doesn’t listen to experts. He holds notions he picked up in the 1980s or Fox News.

Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time

His intention is not to make the world less armed but to increase US military spending while making other nations do the same. He wants everyone more armed.

Even if I did agree with Trump on principle on some issue, I do not trust he could carry it out appropriately. He is a universal fuckup. But he is a rich con man, which carries the day with weak-minded people.
That's, like, your opinion, man. (Not saying that I disagree with most of it). Back in the realm of facts, if he cuts military spending in Europe, will you publicly approve?
Feb 4th 2019, 09:38 AM   #148
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Is NPR progressive? Or left? Which? Two different things. Have you ever listened to NPR? The labels you apply here are repeated ad nauseum by the uninformed. Perhaps not you,

NPR: In-depth, focus is on human and ecological issues instead of the over-arching ubiquity of our corporate over-lord-sponsor of other outlets . . . that's not left, not liberal. It's truth told regarding the effects of issues on everyone, instead of only the profits of the wealthy.
I listen to NPR regularly, and they bend the truth and cherry-pick the facts in favor of the liberal agenda at the moment. Which often contradicts the liberal agenda of the previous moment, but they don't have enough self-awareness to recognize that.
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Feb 4th 2019, 09:43 AM   #149
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Follow the money:

Here's an excerpt from your linked article:

"The report, published last week by the Renewable Energy Foundation (REF), a think tank that has campaigned against wind farms, will give ammunition to sceptics, especially within the Conservative Party, who believe the cost of subsidies to the wind industry is far too high and that the growing number of turbines are blighting the countryside."


Here's a link to an apparently more objective set of research:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/1429...y-claims-that/
The link to the actual study would be helpful.
Feb 4th 2019, 09:46 AM   #150
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
That's, like, your opinion, man. (Not saying that I disagree with most of it). Back in the realm of facts, if he cuts military spending in Europe, will you publicly approve?
I gave my answer. There may be a good case for withdrawing some of our military support for Europe that I could support. But I have almost no faith that Trump would promulgate it with any sort of competency.
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