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May 1st 2019, 06:25 PM   #61
 
  Apr 2019
  McMinnville, OR

  2004 Suzuki SV650
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
About 90% of human communication is non-verbal. And 75% of statistics are made up, on the spot.

Seriously,

Nobody here is saying loud pipes do nothing. What I'm saying, echoed by more than a few, is that reliance on loud pipes is a recipe for trouble. "Loud pipes save lives" is just weak justification for being a noisy asshole. And the best riders ride to be seen (and succeed).

Will a loud pipe save a life, eventually? Maybe. But the life you save is your own by riding smart and understanding the dynamics of traffic. A loud pipe is an input very-late-in-the-interaction, an interaction that most likely doesn't occur at all if the rider doesn't have his head up his ass.

Is a noisy bike a 'tool in the arsenal?' Perhaps for some. But maybe the weak need to get better, or need to be thinned from the herd. It's a tool I've never needed, will never use, because I've learned or identified MUCH more effective tools. These are easy to learn, if you have the continuing mindset that there's ALWAYS something more to learn.

BTW, from a physiological perspective, motion is about ten times as likely to get someone's attention as sound, light, color. That's not made up.

In dynamic traffic setting, especially from within a sealed car, the direction from which a sound emanates is difficult to discern. Motion, on the other hand . . .

Does the cab pull to the curb because you yell 'taxi!' Or because you waved at them?

Does the waiter bring the check because you said "check' from across the room? Or because you raised your hand and rubbed your thumb and finger together?
This guy^ definitely has something up his ass
May 1st 2019, 06:45 PM   #62
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2019 Nada
the previous post has the word "hope" in it.

i note it does not say "study" or "science".
May 1st 2019, 06:49 PM   #63
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  NW Oregon

  R1200ST, CB350
I've been driving for almost 40 years. (Wow, it feels weird to say that.) My first street vehicle was a motorcycle -- not a quiet one -- and I've usually had at least one for all that time. So when I'm driving, I'm alert to motorcycles out of concern and habit.

And still I find the loud pipes safety argument pretty thin. Sure, I can imagine situations where they'd make a positive difference, but I can't think of a single one where deliberately shorting your horn button so it's blowing all the time wouldn't work even better, since that at least is a recognized attention-grabbing sound and it projects in front of you where you're going to be, rather than behind you where you've been. But who wants to do that, and who wants to be made to listen to it? No damn body, that's who.
May 1st 2019, 07:27 PM   #64
 Suzuki Stevo's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle ,Wa

  Burgman 400, TW200, Boulevard M50, 2018 Indian Scout 1131, 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic
I didn't read very far....Situation Awareness, Watch Out For The Other Guy, Does anyone remember this one??

May 1st 2019, 08:58 PM   #65
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
but reading deeper into the figures pedestrian fatalities typically occur when vehicle speed is @34mph or higher...
I would guess that at 30+, fatalities are especially likely to occur with a pedestrian and a vehicle. But having been hit by a car on my bicycle at far less than that speed, I can say that getting fucked up occurs from 0 to 30 mph.
Parilla125, 307T and craiger like this.
May 1st 2019, 09:05 PM   #66
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Nobody here is saying loud pipes do nothing. What I'm saying, echoed by more than a few, is that reliance on loud pipes is a recipe for trouble.
And nobody here is saying that they rely solely on loud pipes.

So what are you arguing about?
TimberMoto likes this.
May 1st 2019, 09:43 PM   #67
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Just to get another post, I have bikes that are loud and bikes that are quiet. Like them all. My 90 degree 1000 v twin at 9K with loud pipes does sound pretty sweet though...
May 2nd 2019, 07:16 AM   #68
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2019 Nada
it's the loudness that makes the civilians think the bikes are ass-hauling though. silent bikes = more super happy speed with less griping from the proles.
May 2nd 2019, 07:54 AM   #69
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2007 Aprilia Tuono Factory, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
"Loud pipes saves lives" is nothing more than a catch phrase created by those with limited vocabularies used by those that get defensive whenever someone challenges their decisions. It's just a bumper sticker slogan. Get over it. Move on. Next please.

Sentinel, find us a new topic. Something cool about new bikes. I don't care if it's about e-bikes or ultra loud, Termignoni pipes. Gotta be something out there.
May 2nd 2019, 10:25 AM   #70
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Motorcycle
Too many opinions.... I get it, you don't like loud motorcycles. Quit trying to justify your opinion as being the "right" way.

And your perspective perception is wrong Its light. But really who cares.
I don't like loud motorcycles? Not in evidence in any of my writing. Perhaps you should read more carefully and not disparage the opinions of others while yours are unfounded and rather incomplete.

What I don't like are people who repeat tired cliche's as if they're some kind of mantra, a method, a means of doing it correctly. Loud pipes saves lives is a falsehood. That many here keep repeating it does not render it true.

Hundreds of traffic and transportation studies have been done over the decades. Find me ONE that concludes that louder is better, for ANY passenger vehicle type, with regards to collision avoidance. ONE. That's all I ask.

I'll justify my opinion this way:

40 years experience, decades of professional training, for road and track, for every kind of vehicle you can imagine.

I care. About 99 percent of the moto accidents I've seen could have been avoided if the rider was just a bit better at it. Repeating a falsehood about riding and exhaust noise, to me, is an indication that the rider can get better at it. The smartest, most experienced, most skilled and most professional riders I know all say what I'm saying: Loud pipes have nothing to do with safety.

And you're wrong. Here's a primer to the concept, a rudimentary and illustrative example of what I'm talking about regarding human's visual perceptions:

https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/eye

Edited by FireDave on May 2nd 2019 at 10:49 AM
May 2nd 2019, 11:54 AM   #71
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
The smartest, most experienced, most skilled and most professional riders I know all say what I'm saying: Loud pipes have nothing to do with safety.
vs

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Will a loud pipe save a life, eventually? Maybe.
Make up your mind, man.
May 2nd 2019, 02:01 PM   #72
DGA
 DGA's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  An Ape and a Husky
My personal experience: people don't merge into me on my loud Tuono, where they try and merge into me on my stock sounding ZX10. Same bad rider, same old routes, different outcomes depending on the bike. To rule out the visibility factor, the ZX10 is Kawi green and black, very visible, where the Tuono is just black. I had the same exact experiences throughout the years on my other loud vs stock exhaust bikes. Aside from giving Vaun a headache from the loud exhaust, I've found that the noise helped in being noticed.

Anyway...what type of oil are you guys thinking of using in your e-bikes?
1shinysideup likes this.
May 2nd 2019, 02:02 PM   #73
 
  Apr 2019
  McMinnville, OR

  2004 Suzuki SV650
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
I don't like loud motorcycles? Not in evidence in any of my writing. Perhaps you should read more carefully and not disparage the opinions of others while yours are unfounded and rather incomplete.

What I don't like are people who repeat tired cliche's as if they're some kind of mantra, a method, a means of doing it correctly. Loud pipes saves lives is a falsehood. That many here keep repeating it does not render it true.

Hundreds of traffic and transportation studies have been done over the decades. Find me ONE that concludes that louder is better, for ANY passenger vehicle type, with regards to collision avoidance. ONE. That's all I ask.

I'll justify my opinion this way:

40 years experience, decades of professional training, for road and track, for every kind of vehicle you can imagine.

I care. About 99 percent of the moto accidents I've seen could have been avoided if the rider was just a bit better at it. Repeating a falsehood about riding and exhaust noise, to me, is an indication that the rider can get better at it. The smartest, most experienced, most skilled and most professional riders I know all say what I'm saying: Loud pipes have nothing to do with safety.

And you're wrong. Here's a primer to the concept, a rudimentary and illustrative example of what I'm talking about regarding human's visual perceptions:

https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/eye
So what? Everyone can only write something that appeases your ideals. Who are you? Even if you were God almighty I wouldn't write something just to appease you because God doesn't work that way. He gave us ALL free will and free choice. But I take it you're above God somehow?

On another note I find the following to be of interest:

I’ll tell you what. I’ll tone down my exhaust note and ride a quieter motorcycle if you get your head out of your posterior, drive your car in a responsible manner, and stop looking at motorcyclists as if they’re dispensable.

https://www.straight.com/life/loud-p...-riders-safety


In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.

Do Loud Motorcycle Exhaust Pipes Save Lives? | MotorcycleIntelligence.com
May 2nd 2019, 02:50 PM   #74
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
I would argue that overly loud pipes do a lot more toward angering the general public than adding to rider safety, although there may be some of each. I have aftermarket pipes on my bike, but I would not call them loud. If you really want to maximize the "safety" factor, you should direct the outlet of your loud exhaust forward, not back, so it is more likely to be heard by those you are approaching.
May 2nd 2019, 04:05 PM   #75
 
  Apr 2019
  McMinnville, OR

  2004 Suzuki SV650
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95
I would argue that overly loud pipes do a lot more toward angering the general public than adding to rider safety, although there may be some of each. I have aftermarket pipes on my bike, but I would not call them loud. If you really want to maximize the "safety" factor, you should direct the outlet of your loud exhaust forward, not back, so it is more likely to be heard by those you are approaching.
I think the take away here is simple: Loud pipes save lives
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