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Apr 30th 2019, 09:18 PM   #46
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Yes, Wheelchairs go about 5 mph. Very few human-powered bicyclists can reach 30 mph on flat level ground, unless they're in a race.

Of course it will stand a court challenge, if a law is passed that restricts. Does anyone question that motorcycles, horses, bicycles (of all types) are banned from specific trails?

A wide-open multi-use trail doesn't really exist anymore, nearly all trails are for specific use, (or a range of specific use)

Banning motorcycles from most trails is done. Now it's just a matter of definition. The regulatory environment is not yet caught up on definitions, licensing, restricted areas of use for most 2-wheeled electric.

e-Scooters, e-bikes, single wheel, Segways, and they're spreading fast. Our city sidewalks, urban bike paths, park trails . . . they need to be protected. The people using those trails aren't expecting and will suffer if 25 mph speed differentials are allowed. A 650Wh e-mtn-bike (enough of them) will tear up a trail just as a dirt bike.

It'll probably take a bad event or two before laws are adapted.

Seattle is getting there:

Speed limit and e-bike regulations coming to Burke-Gilman Trail ? My Ballard

WA State's first real step is too broad, too vague, and lacks any enforcement:

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni.../6434-S.SL.pdf
Speed limits are fine and welcome, but a law banning disabled people from using any electric bikes on trails will not stand a court challenge. Mark my words.
Apr 30th 2019, 09:33 PM   #47
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95
If you don't think people riding like A-holes and ridiculously loud pipes are part of the reason some people hate motorcyclists, I think you are wrong. I too enjoy a good sounding motor being wound out, but in an appropriate place, like a track. A mild cruiser motor with straight pipes does not fit this description.
How about dry clutch Ducati? How about new electric Harley with gears specially cut in a way to make noise? (to me gear noise means wear, but maybe it's some Harley miracle and they will remain noisy forever).
Apr 30th 2019, 09:52 PM   #48
 TimberMoto's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Supermoto Dreaming...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
I would love nothing more than a silent bike to go ripping around at night. If no one hears you did it really happen?
A silent supermoto could make for some serious fun. Could go full hooligan in many more places than a bike that goes thump.
VegasWolf and Sentinel like this.
May 1st 2019, 12:00 AM   #49
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
How about dry clutch Ducati? How about new electric Harley with gears specially cut in a way to make noise? (to me gear noise means wear, but maybe it's some Harley miracle and they will remain noisy forever).
Straight cut gears make more noise. Angle cut are quieter. My understanding is they are using staight cut so it 'whines'.
Back in my drag racing days some guys were running straight cut timing gears instead of a chain. On a blower car with a cog belt it was hard to tell what made more noise, the belt or the straight cut timing gears whistling away.
May 1st 2019, 07:22 AM   #50
 Bald Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kennewick

  Versys 1000 SE LT+, Ural Patrol and a shit load of BN125
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Limiting their power and speed, sure. But then someone will have to start policing it.
Trust me, if this is a way to add to your budget, personnel count, and scope of authority, they will.
liberpolly and Sentinel like this.
May 1st 2019, 07:29 AM   #51
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
How about dry clutch Ducati? How about new electric Harley with gears specially cut in a way to make noise? (to me gear noise means wear, but maybe it's some Harley miracle and they will remain noisy forever).
Dry clutches and gear drives do not even compare to open pipes.
May 1st 2019, 08:43 AM   #52
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy
Trust me, if this is a way to add to your budget, personnel count, and scope of authority, they will.
Point.
May 1st 2019, 09:05 AM   #53
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
I find myself really balking at the idea of registration and insurance.

I know it's an in-between vehicle, but The Man already gets enough of a piece of us.
Just paid for tabs in Seattle, so I am feeling this

Either electric bicycle with 6000W motor, or pre-1989 vintage will get you out of paying tabs while ripping on city streets. Decisions, decisions...
May 1st 2019, 10:57 AM   #54
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  NW Oregon

  R1200ST, CB350
I am the inherent danger!

May 1st 2019, 11:45 AM   #55
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
I miss my weekly infusion of Heisenberg.
May 1st 2019, 01:06 PM   #56
 jared p's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  here

  there
May 1st 2019, 03:36 PM   #57
 unicykle's Avatar
 
  Sep 2017
  milwaukie oregon

  gsxr600 gsxr750 gsxr1000 i like gsxrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parilla125
Straight cut gears make more noise. Angle cut are quieter. My understanding is they are using staight cut so it 'whines'.
Back in my drag racing days some guys were running straight cut timing gears instead of a chain. On a blower car with a cog belt it was hard to tell what made more noise, the belt or the straight cut timing gears whistling away.
Strait cut gears are stronger than helically cut but louder as thay meet flat face to flat face, used in alot of race car transmisions as they dont care about some added noise.
May 1st 2019, 05:13 PM   #58
 Nathan's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  space needle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
I have always slightly dismissed the saying 'Loud pipes save lives' but now, after reading this from a respectable source and experiencing people startled by me driving by in an electric vehicle, am I to reconsider?

MOTO eMAG: E-Moto Industry Analyzed
Yes.

Supposedly the e vehicle noise mandate is due to kick-in 2020...

"Ensuring that quiet EVs and hybrids make noise at low speeds (18.6mph) isn't for the benefit of the driver. Instead, the noise will make it easier for cyclists, pedestrians and the blind to figure out when vehicles are nearby. The hope is that these noisemakers will prevent anyone from inadvertently stepping in front of a vehicle. At higher speeds, tire and wind noise are suitably loud to alert people."

but reading deeper into the figures pedestrian fatalities typically occur when vehicle speed is @34mph or higher...
May 1st 2019, 05:56 PM   #59
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Motorcycle
Damn Ive been missing out on this thread. You guys got all wound up emotionally, throwing your opinions around like facts...... Geez what is this an intraweb forum???

Anyway I am an absolutest. I look at almost everything in life mathematically and logically.

Im sure all you guys that ride want everyone to see you. I know I do, but thats just me. One mentioned wearing bright colors... Yellow and reds stand out and get peoples attention.

Every tried to get someones attention by yelling their name? Maybe you just yelled "hay!" Point being we make noises all the time to get a humans attention and in a lot of cases other animals too.

It is a fact that the more noise you make, more attention will be received from more animals. I mean, noise is how we communicate ....

Heres another fact. It is safer for a motorcyclist when others are aware of his presence.

So are you more "visible" as a very loud motorcyclist compared to a quiet motorcycle? Of course you are, this isn't rocket science.

All opinions aside, its just another tool in the arsenal. Some guys don't use it. Some riders don't wear helmets. The guy who passed me on a new gixer yesterday was wearing a t-shirt. To each there own, but you cant sit there and say loud pipes do nothing. If you have any doubts, try whispering with your hand over your mouth next time you call your dog.
About 90% of human communication is non-verbal. And 75% of statistics are made up, on the spot.

Seriously,

Nobody here is saying loud pipes do nothing. What I'm saying, echoed by more than a few, is that reliance on loud pipes is a recipe for trouble. "Loud pipes save lives" is just weak justification for being a noisy asshole. And the best riders ride to be seen (and succeed).

Will a loud pipe save a life, eventually? Maybe. But the life you save is your own by riding smart and understanding the dynamics of traffic. A loud pipe is an input very-late-in-the-interaction, an interaction that most likely doesn't occur at all if the rider doesn't have his head up his ass.

Is a noisy bike a 'tool in the arsenal?' Perhaps for some. But maybe the weak need to get better, or need to be thinned from the herd. It's a tool I've never needed, will never use, because I've learned or identified MUCH more effective tools. These are easy to learn, if you have the continuing mindset that there's ALWAYS something more to learn.

BTW, from a physiological perspective, motion is about ten times as likely to get someone's attention as sound, light, color. That's not made up.

In dynamic traffic setting, especially from within a sealed car, the direction from which a sound emanates is difficult to discern. Motion, on the other hand . . .

Does the cab pull to the curb because you yell 'taxi!' Or because you waved at them?

Does the waiter bring the check because you said "check' from across the room? Or because you raised your hand and rubbed your thumb and finger together?
May 1st 2019, 06:22 PM   #60
 
  Apr 2019
  McMinnville, OR

  2004 Suzuki SV650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1
I would love nothing more than a silent bike to go ripping around at night. If no one hears you did it really happen?

Ask and you shall receive, go easy tiger.
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