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Aug 31st 2019, 03:01 PM   #1
 Oregon Motorcycle's Avatar
 
  Mar 2019
  oregon

Being More Visible

Hey guys here's a lil video I made yesterday about riding a motorcycle



Would love to hear your opinions
Sep 2nd 2019, 12:23 PM   #2
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
You do seem to be (more or less) actively thinking about how to keep from killing yourself, and overall I liked what I saw, but here are some points:
  • First and foremost, your personal take on following distance limits your escape and visibility options. The closer up you get on the port side of a vehicle in front of you the more you occlude yourself to the right. Dropping back to a 3-4 second following distance, as opposed to your seemingly preferred 1 sec or less, opens up your operational options.
  • Your statement that you should "never ride in the center of the lane" is categorically false. Given enough following distance you are not blind or occluded on either side due to the decrease angle marked by your front tire and the sides of the car you are behind.
  • The idea that you should almost always ride to the left of the lane is not, in my opinion, the best operating procedure. The entire lane belongs to you and should be tactically utilized to your visual advantage.
  • The speed with which you were passing the jammed up traffic, especially with your love of the left side of the lane, bordered on suicidal. You have such a rapid closing rate you unnecessarily increase the number of targets ahead that could cause conflict.

All in all, I do appreciate what you have done, but I would ask that you take some of my well intentioned reflections under advisement.
PeteN95, Parilla125, 307T and 5 others like this.
Sep 3rd 2019, 10:10 AM   #3
 Oregon Motorcycle's Avatar
 
  Mar 2019
  oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl
You do seem to be (more or less) actively thinking about how to keep from killing yourself, and overall I liked what I saw, but here are some points:
  • First and foremost, your personal take on following distance limits your escape and visibility options. The closer up you get on the port side of a vehicle in front of you the more you occlude yourself to the right. Dropping back to a 3-4 second following distance, as opposed to your seemingly preferred 1 sec or less, opens up your operational options.
  • Your statement that you should "never ride in the center of the lane" is categorically false. Given enough following distance you are not blind or occluded on either side due to the decrease angle marked by your front tire and the sides of the car you are behind.
  • The idea that you should almost always ride to the left of the lane is not, in my opinion, the best operating procedure. The entire lane belongs to you and should be tactically utilized to your visual advantage.
  • The speed with which you were passing the jammed up traffic, especially with your love of the left side of the lane, bordered on suicidal. You have such a rapid closing rate you unnecessarily increase the number of targets ahead that could cause conflict.

All in all, I do appreciate what you have done, but I would ask that you take some of my well intentioned reflections under advisement.
Lol
Sep 3rd 2019, 12:40 PM   #4
 ChopperDr's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Buckley

  '98 HD FXD, '03 SV650 track
LOL that you ask for opinions then LOL at them???


You seem pretty obsessed with the car in front of you seeing you. How often does the car in front of you cause issues if they don't see you?

Chop
Willow likes this.
Sep 3rd 2019, 12:49 PM   #5
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperDr
LOL that you ask for opinions then LOL at them???


You seem pretty obsessed with the car in front of you seeing you. How often does the car in front of you cause issues if they don't see you?

Chop
well there was that time the idiot in front of me slammed on his brakes when the light turned yellow...you were definitely right about not following so close...
Sep 3rd 2019, 02:35 PM   #6
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2007 Aprilia Tuono Factory, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
Having NOT watched the vid, I can assume what's going on with a vehicle in front of you. I get it, CONSPICUITY is a big deal, even when trying to be seen by the idiot in front of you. Although not as dangerous as the cell phone addicted retard behind you, it's still necessary to be seen by everyone, 360 degrees. That bein said, you need to pay extra attention to said idiot, cuz he might just brake check you, or stick his hand out his window trying to "wave" you over, etc. I avoid these people like the plague. I'll pass you when I want, not when you want me to.

So just beware of everyone, all the time. No pressure, it's just your life.
Oregon Motorcycle likes this.
Sep 3rd 2019, 03:51 PM   #7
 Oregon Motorcycle's Avatar
 
  Mar 2019
  oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by craiger
Having NOT watched the vid, I can assume what's going on with a vehicle in front of you. I get it, CONSPICUITY is a big deal, even when trying to be seen by the idiot in front of you. Although not as dangerous as the cell phone addicted retard behind you, it's still necessary to be seen by everyone, 360 degrees. That bein said, you need to pay extra attention to said idiot, cuz he might just brake check you, or stick his hand out his window trying to "wave" you over, etc. I avoid these people like the plague. I'll pass you when I want, not when you want me to.

So just beware of everyone, all the time. No pressure, it's just your life.
Some riders cant comprehend lane sharing. This is whats its all about.

When you split lanes, you become a different rider with different goals.

I feel if your always passing cagers, your the one in control. Therefore, like you said, I'll pass when I want. If they know your there, your passing just got that easier and safer.
Sep 3rd 2019, 03:55 PM   #8
 Oregon Motorcycle's Avatar
 
  Mar 2019
  oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperDr
LOL that you ask for opinions then LOL at them???


You seem pretty obsessed with the car in front of you seeing you. How often does the car in front of you cause issues if they don't see you?

Chop
Maybe your not aware of my lack of respect for texas. I lost it all when he couldn't stop the nonsense pouring out of his hole about how ABS is unnecessary when you are a perfect rider like him. He lives in a fantasy world and I feel sorry for the people he teaches...

But yes it is important that vehicles ahead of you see you. The more the merrier!
Sep 3rd 2019, 08:10 PM   #9
 
  Jan 2016
  Gig Harbor

  BMW F650GS / BMW R12R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Motorcycle
Maybe your not aware of my lack of respect for texas. I lost it all when he couldn't stop the nonsense pouring out of his hole about how ABS is unnecessary when you are a perfect rider like him. He lives in a fantasy world and I feel sorry for the people he teaches...
Thanks for clearing things up...now I know with certainty that I need not bother reading anything that you post in the future.
Texasl, 307T, motoroco and 5 others like this.
Sep 4th 2019, 04:38 AM   #10
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Motorcycle
Maybe you're not aware of my lack of respect for texas. I lost it all when he couldn't stop the nonsense pouring out of his hole about how ABS is unnecessary when you are a perfect rider like him. He lives in a fantasy world and I feel sorry for the people he teaches...

But yes it is important that vehicles ahead of you see you. The more the merrier!
Fixed that for you.
Sep 4th 2019, 04:31 PM   #11
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Texasl and Daboo like this.
Sep 5th 2019, 11:41 AM   #12
 
  Aug 2019
  Seattle

  2014 BMW F800GT
I watched the video. Not bad. You could've dropped the f-bombs. They don't add anything, and didn't impress. Also, you could've made your point in the first half of the video...actually, you did, but you continued on for another six minutes. Still, thanks for the effort. You'll get better as you do more.

Lane positioning is about more than just riding in the left tire track. It needs to vary depending on the circumstances. I'll swap from one side to the other, all based on where I anticipate the "threat" coming from. Which lane, on a multi-lane road, will someone be coming from and try merging into my lane?

The center isn't a bad option, except for one thing. It does allow you to protect your space, and it does give you just a bit more room to maneuver in. But the cage drivers do you a favor by picking up all the metal debris in the tire tracks...and they can't pick up the metal debris in the center for you. On one set of tires when I tried that strategy, I had four or five punctures in the life of the tire. And none for years when I stayed more in a tire track.

On a two lane road, I generally stay towards the center as you do. But there's an argument to moving over to the right lane at times. I'll move over when I see a slow moving vehicle with a string of cars waiting to pass. How often have you seen a car tail-gating a semi and pulling out to pass with no way to have seen if anyone is coming. By moving to the right tire track when you see this, you give those waiting to pass a better chance to see you, and that movement across your lane will also catch their attention.

On the general subject of visibility, riders can do more for passive visibility. I ride all year long, and in some really poor weather. In Seattle when it rains, the road is dark gray. The cars are gray. The sky is gray. And the road spray in between, blends it all into varying shades of gray. So I put reflective tape on my bike. You can buy some in a pin-striping width that either blends in with the same color as the bike, or a color that accents it. In daylight, I've had people think it was a factory pin-striping job and all I did was to follow the lines of the bike, trying to apply it to vertical panels where it'll reflect the light. In those low visibility times, that tape makes the bike light up.

I also wear hi-vis gear. Between the bike being lit up, and the hi-vis color on me, plus reflective tape sewn into my gear, it is pretty hard not to see me. It must work; I haven't had anyone cut me off doing a left-hand turn and I ride in some of the worst traffic in the country.

Another idea for a video...lane positioning strategies for in town riding. For instance, where do you position yourself at a traffic light?

Again, thanks for the effort. Clean up the language and edit the time down, and it'll be fantastic.

Chris
Oregon Motorcycle likes this.
Sep 5th 2019, 01:12 PM   #13
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
It used to be recommended by experienced riders and publications to avoid the center of the lane because cars dropped oil and other fluids there and it provides little purchase for braking, especially if rain comes.

I don’t know if I see as much oil on the road these days. But, in Oregon at least, I do notice pretty deep gullies where the studded tires track and tear up the pavement, and then when it rains, water fills like rivers and is great for hydroplaning.

So now I don’t have any sort of dogma on lane position. Whatever seems optimal based on traction, line of sight, visibility and strategic position guides me and it changes throughout my ride.
Texasl and Rusty Nail like this.

Edited by Transported on Sep 5th 2019 at 03:09 PM
Sep 15th 2019, 10:50 AM   #14
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
I gave up after you passed a car on the right hand side, the language, the excessive speed (in the right lane), you clearly edited...and the Bob Seger.


I keep hearing about how ridership is declining, which is literally baffling to me when there are so many incredible bikes out there for tip jar money, 675's, R1's, Ninja's. Incredible machines with better performance than the race bikes my heroes rode when I was a kid for peanuts on CL. Like hearing Super models are desperate for dates.

Then I watch something like this that is telling me how to ride safer?

I think Texas was being generous, but okay, he seems to know way more than riding technique and best practice than me, but even if there was something in that video about proper safe riding, I would be hard pressed to see anything that would make a car driving prospective ride want to get out from behind the wheel and have a go at ground level flight. Which I find sad. More riders, more awareness, better insurance, more political muscle. MORE CONSPICUITY than any green whatever could generate!!

I'm guessing not that many of us are old enough to remember the whole "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" but it was truly a watershed moment in motorcycling.

Maybe see how many people ( I like to call them prospective or former riders) you can not piss off.
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Sep 16th 2019, 05:03 AM   #15
 Oregon Motorcycle's Avatar
 
  Mar 2019
  oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
I gave up after you passed a car on the right hand side, the language, the excessive speed (in the right lane), you clearly edited...and the Bob Seger.


I keep hearing about how ridership is declining, which is literally baffling to me when there are so many incredible bikes out there for tip jar money, 675's, R1's, Ninja's. Incredible machines with better performance than the race bikes my heroes rode when I was a kid for peanuts on CL. Like hearing Super models are desperate for dates.

Then I watch something like this that is telling me how to ride safer?

I think Texas was being generous, but okay, he seems to know way more than riding technique and best practice than me, but even if there was something in that video about proper safe riding, I would be hard pressed to see anything that would make a car driving prospective ride want to get out from behind the wheel and have a go at ground level flight. Which I find sad. More riders, more awareness, better insurance, more political muscle. MORE CONSPICUITY than any green whatever could generate!!

I'm guessing not that many of us are old enough to remember the whole "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" but it was truly a watershed moment in motorcycling.

Maybe see how many people ( I like to call them prospective or former riders) you can not piss off.
Crazy how some of the most passionate responses come from folks who didnít watch the whole video. I think the last part was pretty level headed, but who cares about my opinion. Texas did not watch the whole vid, yet wrote a 3 point essay on how I suck. But whatever.

This vid is NOT about safety or me riding safer than you. Itís about making yourselves more visible wether your riding by someone else's standards or not. I see so many PNW riders riding the middle portion of the lane. And then I sit and talk to so many about how their cut off and how people just donít see them... Even though I ride in black, (red helmet) Iím constantly practicing to make myself more visible. Like weaving back and forth and/or flashing my lights at cars making left hand turns. A lot of this has to do with hugging the dotted line,.... which nobody does up here. Sorry but I was raised and taught so different than this and itís mind boggling for me to see riders sitting in the middle of the lane in bumper to bumper traffic. Or better yet, hugging the right side of a 2 lane rural highway. I was taught defensive riding techniques as a kid and itís just non existent up here.

I feel a lot of has to do with folks up here strictly riding for pleasure 4-6 months out of the year. Where as in states where you ride year round everyday (1-3 hours in traffic everyday like me) I feel itís more of a way of transportation. Where the riding style is so different, others canít comprehend. Hell, lol, I know people raised up here who can hardly drive a car down in that mess. Iím serious.


Like I said in the vid (which you or Texas didnít hear) is that everyone one has their own perception and technique. Not to say mine or yours is better, but maybe my technique could help your technique and so on. We should be sharing more techniques instead of knocking people who do or try to.

I remember ďfollow the leader, heís on a HondaĒ....
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