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Jul 3rd 2019, 10:50 PM   #91
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
The internet demands rhetoric. It’s what propelled a huckster into the White House.

Most of us don’t live IRL that way though.
Jul 3rd 2019, 11:06 PM   #92
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Quote:
Originally Posted by coastrider
I have attended the Baker City gathering weekend after Labor Day a couple times and enjoyed dinners and conversation with the folks that showed up. Before I made that first trip I was apprehensive about attending based on the conversations I had seen on this forum. This thread is the sort of thing that gave me reservations about wanting to actually meet up with the people on this forum. I was expecting that half way through dinner the gathering would degenerate into name calling or worse. Either a more polite group of riders attended or folks are on better behavior when having a face to face conversation.
Oh snap!
Jul 3rd 2019, 11:12 PM   #93
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastrider
I have attended the Baker City gathering weekend after Labor Day a couple times and enjoyed dinners and conversation with the folks that showed up. Before I made that first trip I was apprehensive about attending based on the conversations I had seen on this forum. This thread is the sort of thing that gave me reservations about wanting to actually meet up with the people on this forum. I was expecting that half way through dinner the gathering would degenerate into name calling or worse. Either a more polite group of riders attended or folks are on better behavior when having a face to face conversation.
it was good seeing you in Baker City and yes we do get some of the cream of the crop on that ride...patiently waiting on this year's ride notice...
Jul 4th 2019, 01:15 AM   #94
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Rideapart compiled a list of the driver's transgressions:
https://www.rideapart.com/articles/3...st-record-dui/

complete systemic failure of the bureaucracy on all levels.

The biggest danger of our times is not rhetoric, it's arrogant ignorance of people who just *know* they are rigth, despite the facts. A huckster into the White House was propelled by people who got sick of being lectured by an ignoramus in the White House.
Jul 4th 2019, 01:44 AM   #95
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
The real problem is when people ignore facts when they don’t align with their ideology.

That is when it is tempting to turn to “alternative facts.”

Edited by Transported on Jul 4th 2019 at 01:48 AM
Jul 4th 2019, 07:59 AM   #96
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by craiger
Gettin outta hand fella's..and off topic. Asshole kid who shouldn't have been driving was. Now 7 people are needlessly dead and families devastated. Could've/should've been prevented with a little oversight and diligence/follow through. But this can't/won't/don't happen because we as a society refuse to prioritize, through funding mandates, policies that educate, discourage, punish those who flout the system, continue to think that their actions don't have consequences, and don't receive proper justice.

Not to go off on a rant here, but we are long past due deciding what kind of a society we want to live in. We get what we deserve. But don't even think about revenge or vigilante-ism, the man will put you in jail. The system is broken, and there is no political will to fix it. It's all about catering to your donors and corporate masters to get re-elected to install and enforce draconian laws that benefit those who can afford to buy policy makers and legislators. Don't gimme this bullshit about bipartisan-ship, they're ALL corrupt, and they don't give a shit what the average Joe wants or needs. It's all about makin as much money as they can. Wow...what a bummer of a post. I need to go smoke a joint and chill out. I'm gonna listen to Van Morrison and plan my ride to the coast on Friday. Think I'll go to Pacific City via the route to Hebo...mmmm
There is a way to fix it.

Stop electing anti-tax, 'fiscal conservatives' who aren't conservative at all when the axe comes, and they start chopping indiscriminately at the 'bureaucrats.'

Yes, there's inefficiency in gov't, yes there are mistakes, as within ALL large organizations. The trends of the right-wing, to continually defund agencies, then complain about their performance, all to support their arguments to give 'privatization' contracts to their cronies . . . well, maybe it's killed a few people.

MA RMV:https://www.masslive.com/politics/20...titutes_h.html

Did this hiring freeze lead to a reduction in staffing, due to attrition, leaving the fewer remaining employees with greater (too much) workloads each? Probably. I've seen this personally. Something has to give, such as tossing out-of-state notices into a bin, to be dealt with later, or not at all, until they had the manpower to do it.

My personal experience with dipshit's Federal hiring freeze. I'm sitting next to a person who, 4 years ago, won a case against a guy trying to steal 80 million dollars from the taxpayers, via Medicare fraud. Worked her ass off and won, ONE lawyer and .2 of a paralegal against this rich-asshole's 6 lawyers from three law firms.

Now, due to the hiring freeze and attrition, that case doesn't even reach court. HHS/DOJ have to settle or just let it go, because there's not enough time in the day to do the work. $80 million, one case. Because the mango-moron and his sycophants can't see the forest for the pine needles.

How do you tell this year's crop of 16-year-old kids they have to wait to get their MDL, because you've got to deal with Neg II and DUI notices of junkie-punks-drunks two states away?

Something had to give. In this case at hand, it took it's toll in a tragically predictable outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curve addict
Many folks, maybe most, feel good when they know/understand/believe that they are right, correct, the most accurate. Who won? A person has to do one's own research in order to learn that answer. Admittedly, I don't always do the research.

When I have done the research; that is the stuff I reserve for that quiet, teachable moment; during a face-to face conversation.

In any case, we should feel fortunate that we can discuss this, after the fact. We didn't have to experience it first-hand.
Exactly. I could have answered the questions I posed, I could post sources for all my assertions Only to know that the argumentative and ignorant will disagree, challenge the validity, the biases of the sources.

Learn it for yourself, then go argue with yourself. Or have at least some trust that some people know more than you, have done more research, learned it.

At least attempt to stop inserting your paranoid belief that everybody has an 'angle' or 'agenda' to mislead you to a false conclusion.

To all: If you disbelieve an assertion here, please fact-check it, heavily, before you reply. That's what I do, it's become something of a hobby, and I learn a ton by doing it. Beleive it or not, I read everything here, and always acknowledge it when a member shows me something I didn't know.
But it gets old dealing with adults with childish and incomplete mindsets, who appear too willing to write beliefs as fact, opinions as research, 10-year-old anecdotes as complete evidence.

Learn to read between the lines, as too much of what's available was written under the same, aforementioned mindset.
Understand the internet does not always provide evidence or links to support more complicated ideas or processes. Complex economics, obscure psychological and medical phenomena, old facts and ideas that haven't really come up since 1996. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

Last: A theme I see in too many threads here.

Maudlin, trite comments, like inflicting "people died, good people, how dare you talk about the mistakes they made" into a discussion of how the bad outcome could have been avoided.

Lets learn from the mistakes of others without criticizing those who speak directly and frankly. It's not 'disrespectful of the dead' to analyze, dissect and gain insight from their deaths. IMO, it is respectful, the epitiome of respect, to attempt to not have the same thing happen again.

The case at hand, as with pretty much all events like this: It was a chain of mistakes, not just one mistake, that resulted in the outcome. Everyone involved could have done something a bit different, and thus radically affected the scope of the incident. Let's learn from that.

Patience.

Edited by FireDave on Jul 10th 2019 at 06:49 PM
Jul 4th 2019, 11:31 AM   #97
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Did this hiring freeze lead to a reduction in staffing, due to attrition, leaving the fewer remaining employees with greater (too much) workloads each? Probably. I've seen this personally. Something has to give, such as tossing out-of-state notices into a bin, to be dealt with later, or not at all, until they had the manpower to do it.
The difference would be that a private organization, facing competition and shrinking revenues, would get rid of less essential headcount and try to turn around the rest. Whereas government bureaucracies tend to try to inflict maximum pain on the taxpayers unfortunate enough to be in need of their services, in hope to turn the public sentiment toward more funding.

How many diversity outreach coordinators, middle managers, low performing stuffers, secretaries of office managers, fax machine sanitizers, and team bulding retreat coordinators were let go to make up for shortages in the essential functions? My guess would be zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
My personal experience with dipshit's Federal hiring freeze. I'm sitting next to a person who, 4 years ago, won a case against a guy trying to steal 80 million dollars from the taxpayers, via Medicare fraud. Worked her ass off and won, ONE lawyer and .2 of a paralegal against this rich-asshole's 6 lawyers from three law firms.

Now, due to the hiring freeze and attrition, that case doesn't even reach court. HHS/DOJ have to settle or just let it go, because there's not enough time in the day to do the work. $80 million, one case. Because the mango-moron and his sycophants can't see the forest for the pine needles.
Or maybe because your agency is unable to prioritize a $80 million case over a $13.47 case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
How do you tell this year's crop of 16-year-old kids they have to wait to get their MDL, because you've got to deal with Neg II and DUI notices of junkie-punks-drunks two states away?

Something had to give. In this case at hand, it took it's toll in a tragically predictable outcome.
Funny how this "something" that has to give is never something abundant that taxpayers would gladly give up on.

Look around whatever agency you are in. Think which people, if gone, would have negligible effect on the outcomes for the taxpayers. Be honest with yourself. You don't even have to report here, just for your own mental and emotional growth. Yes, they are real people, and yes, their families will suffer if they let go. But will it affect the function of your agency?

Here's just icing on the cake: https://dailycaller.com/2018/04/26/f...-billions-gao/ and that's just what they found, and only inter-agency.

Multiply this number by 10 to estimate inter-agency redundancies.

Or page through this list: https://posey.house.gov/wasteful-spending/

Blaming this accident on a hiring freeze, while agencies are incapable to rein in even the most outrageous forms of waste, is worst form of demagoguery.
VeritasImageryNW likes this.
Jul 4th 2019, 11:35 AM   #98
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
The real problem is when people ignore facts when they don’t align with their ideology.
Yes, and your side is doing is with equal abandon as the opposite side. You can keep ranting about it, or you can check the instances where you personally or your side in general were proven wrong with facts, acknowledge it, and learn something.

Your choice?
Jul 4th 2019, 11:41 AM   #99
 chadams66's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Garden Home

  2012 Versys...'83 BMW R80 RT...Suzuki GS 450t
whack a doodle after whack a doodle after whack a doodle...we're getting chapter and verse on whack a doodleness...what is this fox news or something?

I'm not going to go back and look up who said "who says they were good people" after I said good people died..it kind of ended there for me...that had to be the dumbest thing I've heard about this whole affair and whoever said it should go take a good long look in the mirror...
Jul 4th 2019, 11:49 AM   #100
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
What “side” still denies that Global Warming is a thing?

There is absolutely no comparison between the anti-science/literal Bible translators conservatives and everyone else.
Jul 4th 2019, 12:20 PM   #101
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
What “side” still denies that Global Warming is a thing?

There is absolutely no comparison between the anti-science/literal Bible translators conservatives and everyone else.
Which side denies the basic laws of economics like supply and demand? The comparison is absolutely valid and equal.
Jul 4th 2019, 12:59 PM   #102
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
The difference would be . . . blah blah blah
Give it a rest dude. You're boring, predictable as hell, and, despite all your words, haven't added anything to the conversation that hasn't been covered extensively by the last thousand idiots who attempted to sound intelligent.

Earlier you sarcastically questioned the veracity of another's Reddit link, now you post as fact something from the Daily Caller? I'm not debating either source, here, right now, although the Daily Caller is awfully low-hanging fruit. It's just that no one likes a hypocrite.


But in the end, thank you for proving my points about you.

Edited by FireDave on Jul 4th 2019 at 03:24 PM
Jul 4th 2019, 01:21 PM   #103
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Or supply side economics, I presume.

And, dude, economics is not a science.

Edited by Transported on Jul 4th 2019 at 01:25 PM
Jul 4th 2019, 06:32 PM   #104
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '08 BMW K12GT, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadams66
whack a doodle after whack a doodle after whack a doodle...we're getting chapter and verse on whack a doodleness...what is this fox news or something?

I'm not going to go back and look up who said "who says they were good people" after I said good people died..it kind of ended there for me...that had to be the dumbest thing I've heard about this whole affair and whoever said it should go take a good long look in the mirror...
Nobody here wrote those words about good people. You stated they were good people. I replied that there’s no evidence they were. You appear to illustrate my concern regarding a strange notion that it’s only good people who die via our definitions of tragic. Were they good people? Who the hell knows except their friends, family, and the local authorities. For all we know they were wife beaters and arsonists. But probably not all of them. So let’s not assume they’re criminals or good people, eh?

An honest question for you: Why do you assume they were good people? Because some of them served in the military? Because they rode motorcycles? Because they’re dead at the hands of a bad person?

Or just your general trust in the goodness of mankind?

Edited by FireDave on Jul 4th 2019 at 06:37 PM
Jul 4th 2019, 07:01 PM   #105
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Man! This thread is WAY gone off the rails!
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