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Jul 3rd 2019, 05:03 AM   #61
 Akdawg's Avatar
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
With the sensationalism on the news about such shameful events it's on the front page. When the 3rd time DUI drunk that kills the little girl on the bicycle is finally sentenced it's on the court blotter buried on page 10. To bad the long or life sentences these asshats are awarded don't make the front page as well and perhaps someone, hopefully, will realize that impaired driving isn't such a cool idea...my 2cents
Jul 3rd 2019, 07:04 AM   #62
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberpolly
Dude, I really hate to pick on you, but could you possibly be more ingorant and arrogant at the same time? Yes, there's plenty of argument. Objective data shows that in the hands of expert rider, for example, Yamaha R6 stops 60-0 mph in 124 feet, while Harley Softtail Heritage takes whopping 132 feet.

2011 Yamaha YZF-R6 Street Comparison - Motorcycle USA
https://www.cycleworld.com/2018-harl...rcycle-review/

It is a statistical wash.
Insults? Well then. Your comment makes me wonder if you've ever ridden a motorcycle or passed 8th-grade math. 8 feet is not a statistical wash. it's 6%.

Quoting two separate articles regarding stopping distance comparisons is problematic: Are both measuring total stopping distance, including reaction time? Or just the braking distance once the brake-light comes on? Neither article explains their methodology, but they use different terminology:

Cycle World's 2018 HD: "Braking Distance"
MotoUSA's 2011 R6: "Stopping Distance"

For those who read carefully and understand, these are two VERY different things. I'm sure you knew that.

Also notable, your two articles are comparing bikes with a 7 year age difference. If you want to try to explain why this doesn't matter, I ask you to entertain us with more ignorance, for just a moment or two.

ANYBODY with half a motorcycle brain, not you, evidently, would understand the forces at play in stopping the bikes at hand. A 410 lb R6 with 2 front rotors, greater weight transfer and thus larger contact patch , can stop faster than 740 lbs with less weight transfer, one front rotor and arguably a less powerful hydraulic system.

There's much more to it, too much to delve into here regarding rotor diameter, rotor thickness, pad compound, heat absorption and dispersion, braided vs rubber lines, suspension, etc, etc. . . . except to say it's highly likely that Yamaha applied all it can to the R6, while HD tends to ignore it if it can't be chromed.

Stopping distances are important, but slowing the bike is just as important. The difference being that slowing to a controllable speed, then being able to evade, is as crucial as coming to a complete stop. How does the HD compare to the R6 when you look at the curve of deceleration rates from 60 to 0? Does the HD fade? Does the R6 get grabby at the slow end of the curve? Does one bike shed it's speed earlier, or is the curve a constant rate of deceleration?

These things matter. But articles such as yours seldom do enough research, get technical enough to answer these questions.

AND

Those selling bikes just love to cherry-pick stats that best state their case. 2018 R6 vs 2018 Softtail: What are the stopping and/or braking distances at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 mph? I don't know the answers, but an educated guess is the R6, over all, stops better. Anybody know the answer here? I guess we can toss the 90 mph comparison, we're talking abut an HD after all.

Additionally, since the HD rider is probably using the rear brake as a major part of slowing the bike, human physiology comes into play:

Once the human brain realizes the need to apply the brakes, our synapses transmit the message to our right hand 10 times faster than that same message gets to our foot. If the R6 rider is covering the brake lever with one or two fingers, then the overall reaction time's difference between hand and foot lengthens.

BTW, for an HD rider, that 8 feet you mention is the difference between riding home vs having a 740lb bike snap your tib-fib after you rear-end the metro bus.
Or perhaps the difference between a broken leg vs being decapitated by an out-of-control pick-up/flatbed-combo, driven by a 23-year-old junkie/drunk.

I don't get it. You tell me I'm wrong, then post links that tell me I'm not. Hmmm.
You hate picking on me? That term implies some level of power differential. Ego much?

I've ridden both bikes, almost: A 2006 Anniversary R6 and a 2007 Heritage Softtail Deluxe. There's NO FUCKING COMPARISON, not even close, in braking/stopping capabilities, I can assure you.

To give my poetic opinion:

R6: OMFG these brakes are good.
HD: Fred-Flinstone-stops will soon wreck my boots.

Edited by FireDave on Jul 3rd 2019 at 01:39 PM
Jul 3rd 2019, 07:35 AM   #63
 kornflake's Avatar
 
  Jul 2016
  Oregon

  husky 701 sumo
https://news.yahoo.com/wake-deadly-n...l&uh_test=2_14
Jul 3rd 2019, 07:54 AM   #64
 
  Mar 2016
  Seattle

  '14 KTM Duke 690, '18 BMW R12RS, '05 BMW R12ST
Quote:
Originally Posted by kornflake
A lot of lawyers will be buying new boats.
Jul 3rd 2019, 08:32 AM   #65
 307T's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Washington County

  H-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
A lot of lawyers will be buying new boats.
Ain't that the truth.

On the plus side, it would appear as if at least one state will be doing something about follow-up on citations issued and, hopefully it is a permanent operational change. It would be a bonus if other states all reviewed their procedures to ensure they don't fall into the same exceptions.

I seem to recall that one of the stories published about this incident said that Zhukovskyy had been on a new employee probation period with the company that had recently hired him. If I remembered correctly and that was true, likely he wouldn't have been hired in the first place had his license been suspended.

On the downside, we all know that people who have had their licenses suspended have been known to continue to drive, and chronic drunks seem to be a high percentage in that category.
Jul 3rd 2019, 08:34 AM   #66
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2007 Aprilia Tuono Factory, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
Just another example of clue-less, asshat, narrow-minded, self centered bureaucrats not doing their fucking jobs. Isn't job #1 supposed to be "to protect the public"? Obviously not. Like the "lane sharing" issue that continually shows up in the legislative process, only to be shot down by some arrogant fucking bureaucrat who thinks that they know better than everyone else, regardless of in-your-face facts. Fuck I'm pissed about this. Hang the mutherfucker. Why spend taxpayer money incarcerating him for a year and a half before the trial even starts? What a bunch of bullshit. Time to start carrying firearms whilst riding? Knives and brass knuckles whilst I pedal to work? What the fuck is going on in this country? If this asshole was a Latino, I GUARANTEE that ICE would be all over this guy, but since he's RUSSIAN, no one will do a goddamn thing.
Jul 3rd 2019, 08:42 AM   #67
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Earlier I asked how it is possible this guy had any sort of license with his DUI history. I guess now we know. Bureaucratic fuck up.

“As of Monday, they had processed 655 new license suspensions – all related to alcohol-related violations – spanning 546 individuals. More are likely as the sorting continues.”
Jul 3rd 2019, 08:55 AM   #68
 
  Jan 2016
  Lynnwood WA

  2007 Yamaha FZ6, 2008 Aprilia Tuono & 2009 Yamaha WR250R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Earlier I asked how it is possible this guy had any sort of license with his DUI history. I guess now we know. Bureaucratic fuck up.

“As of Monday, they had processed 655 new license suspensions – all related to alcohol-related violations – spanning 546 individuals. More are likely as the sorting continues.”
But as noted previously, that doesn't stop them from getting behind the wheel.
Jul 3rd 2019, 08:55 AM   #69
 craiger's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Molalla

  2007 Aprilia Tuono Factory, 2010 Honda VFR 1200f DCT
The REAL problem is not suspending the licenses, though that is obviously the first step, it's ENFORCING the suspensions. Like I said earlier, he's a white kid. The cops don't care what a white kid is doing. They're busy profiling people of color. This BS is out of control. The asshole in the White House continue's to demonize people of color, while ignoring the biggest safety hazard in this country; young white males. Deal with it. Until those that commit these crimes (and the enablers, don't forget them, to a lesser degree, but really?), are dealt with swiftly and appropriately, this will continue to happen. Be on your guard out there people, the "man" surely does not give a fuck about you. Or me. Unless, of course, they can make some money off of you.
FireDave likes this.

Edited by craiger on Jul 3rd 2019 at 08:59 AM
Jul 3rd 2019, 09:35 AM   #70
 tod701's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stanwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by craiger
Like the "lane sharing" issue that continually shows up in the legislative process, only to be shot down by some arrogant fucking bureaucrat
Lane sharing legislation in Washinton State has never been "shot down" by bureaucrats.

The elected members of the Legislature do that just fine on their own.
Texasl likes this.
Jul 3rd 2019, 10:36 AM   #71
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Drunks and addicts don't care. Period. The drunk and high are the only thing that matters. Only when they get completely straight (maybe) do they care in the least about anything else. And yes, they will get behind the wheel. License or not.
I always get a kick out of people in court wanting to 'look them in the eye' and make them feel the loss they feel.
They. Do. Not. Care. They are drunks or addicts. Get real!
Unless they screw up driving a cop can't tell and they really have no way of knowing if they have a valid drivers license. Even at that, the jails are overflowing, so they would probably be back out and driving again in short order any way.
Sort of like Seattle claiming crime is down. No, it is not. People have just stopped reporting it in high crime area's because NOTHING HAPPENS when they report it. Why bother? Makes the stats look good though!
This accident was a terrible thing. It is easy to second guess the riders/bikes because we were not there but I doubt many or any of us could have avoided it if we were at the front of the group. And probably the rest too. There are plenty of YouTube vids of sportbike riders making a quick stop because of an errant cager only to have someone behind them plow into the car.
We try to stay diligent and watchful but a split second can make the difference. Even checking mirrors takes your 'focus' off the road in front of you for just a moment.

Edited by Parilla125 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:43 AM
Jul 3rd 2019, 12:55 PM   #72
 Akdawg's Avatar
 
  Dec 2018
  Goldendale WA

  Classic Sportsters, Triumph & BSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by tod701
Lane sharing legislation in Washinton State has never been "shot down" by bureaucrats.

The elected members of the Legislature do that just fine on their own.
At public testimony for lane sharing it's WSP (bureaucracy) with help from private sector insurance lobby that provides testimony to the legislators. AND, they get to go last so there's no chance for rebuttal on their misinformation
Jul 3rd 2019, 01:23 PM   #73
 tod701's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stanwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akdawg
At public testimony for lane sharing it's WSP (bureaucracy) with help from private sector insurance lobby that provides testimony to the legislators. AND, they get to go last so there's no chance for rebuttal on their misinformation
Rebuttal happens via visiting key legislative committee members in person after the hearing. Happens all the time.

Regardless of WSP input, the legislation is 100 percent at the mercy of the committee chair. Their power to give a bill a committee hearing or not is where bills live or die.
craiger and Akdawg like this.
Jul 3rd 2019, 02:16 PM   #74
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
A lot of lawyers will be buying new boats.
Hopefully from the personal incomes of the bureaucrats at fault, not from taxpayers money.

If only...
Jul 3rd 2019, 02:33 PM   #75
 liberpolly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seattle

  Ducati Diavel, Aprilia Scarabeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Insults? Well then. Your comment makes me wonder if you've ever ridden a motorcycle or passed 8th-grade math. 8 feet is not a statistical wash. it's 6%.
What in the world did they teach you in your economy classes? 6% is a statistical wash. In each magazine, the spread between the results of the same rider and same motorcycle was at that range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
Quoting two separate articles regarding stopping distance comparisons is problematic: Are both measuring total stopping distance, including reaction time? Or just the braking distance once the brake-light comes on? Neither article explains their methodology, but they use different terminology:

Cycle World's 2018 HD: "Braking Distance"
MotoUSA's 2011 R6: "Stopping Distance"

For those who read carefully and understand, these are two VERY different things. I'm sure you knew that.
You've just invented the difference between these two terms that exists only in your head. A simple googling would show you that same results are used when applying both terms. But if you have an article where two motorcycles were tested together, go ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
ANYBODY with half a motorcycle brain, not you, evidently, would understand the forces at play in stopping the bikes at hand. A 410 lb R6 with 2 front rotors, greater weight transfer and thus larger contact patch , can stop faster than 740 lbs with less weight transfer, one front rotor and arguably a less powerful hydraulic system.
Still as arrogant as ignorant. Neither motorcycle is limited by its rotors or hydraulics, since both are capable of locking the tires at the tested speed (dual rotors are advantageous for repeated braking during racing since they dissipate heat better, but it doesn't matter at one-time emergency stop).

Weight transfrer is a *disadvantage* here since it reduces braking power of the rear tire, whereas heavy long cruiser is able to utilize both. Hence similar braking/stopping distance, you dolt.

The rest of your reply is equally silly nonsense. On a personal level,

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave
I've ridden both bikes, almost: A 2006 Anniversary R6 and a 2007 Heritage Softtail Deluxe. There's NO FUCKING COMPARISON, not even close, in braking/stopping capabilities, I can assure you.
I've ridden 2017 R6 and 2019 Harley Fat Bob (I think? or some other incarnation of their latest crop), and Harley, aside from being a heavy unwiedy pig, was braking suprisingly well even compared to my 2011 Ducati Diavel. R6 is much lighter so it's hard to compare by feeling only, but my Diavel brakes definitely better. Overall, it's not nearly as drastic difference as it was 10 years ago.

Your arrogance reinforces your ignorance. Learn to learn.
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