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Oct 3rd 2016, 09:11 PM   #1
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
Two Brothers exhausts + power tip (baffle/suppressor)

So, I've had a Two Brothers Racing S1R exhaust on my Street Triple since June, and shortly after that I installed the P1X power tip which is just a short baffle to reduce the noise level. It did just that, so I was happy and ignored it until today.

Nels did a dyno tune for me the other day, and afterwards I noticed some weird smells. Turns out my P1X baffle has begun to melt:



There are a couple images of melted P1X's on Google if you search "two brothers p1x melt"..

The guy who posted about his melted P1X on kawi-forums.com said he got this response from TBR:
Quote:
Received a call from Two Brothers today from a guy named Rob. He said that he has been working there for years and has seen the melting of the sound suppressor on street bikes before. He said that having an aftermarket air filter and running the exhaust without the cat is causing the bike to run too lean which will cause the excessive heat. He said to put an EFI system on or replace the K&N air filter with the stock filter.
Which, if you ask me, sounds like a bullshit excuse to not send the guy a new P1X. I'll email them anyway and see what they say - doesn't hurt to try, and considering my bike is fuel-injected, they can't pull the "install an EFI system" BS on me.

Anyone else using a power tip, and if so, have you had your bike on a track/dyno/etc. or just run it real hard for a while and noticed any issues?
Oct 3rd 2016, 09:26 PM   #2
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
Some more photos, cuz why not?




Note: this thing was black when I installed it. Really doesn't seem like this thing was designed to withstand heat.
Oct 3rd 2016, 11:05 PM   #3
 Squidly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bothell

I melted the P1x on my SV and when I emailed twobros they sent me a new one straight away. The new baffle is a slightly different design but it's held up so far. I've had a great CS experience with them.

They also send me replacement o-rings whenever they melt.
Oct 5th 2016, 07:29 AM   #4
Rix
 Rix's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  tacoma

  2014 vstrom 650, 2005 fz1, 82 cm400, 82 450 nighthawk, 83 virago 500, 71 cb175, 70 cl100, 1984 magna
My 2 brothers said not to be used on dyno due to lack of air flow.
Oct 5th 2016, 08:19 AM   #5
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
I contacted them and they offered to send a P1 power tip - as far as I can tell, the P1 is pointless (and the WebBikeWorld review of it measured an increase in noise levels using a P1 compared to no power tip). I asked if they could send a P1X instead as I have no intention of getting back on a dyno any time soon. Waiting on a response right now.

The packaing my P1X came in had practically nothing written on it - definitely no mention of "remove before dyno runs" or anything of the sort.

For now I'm running the bike without the power tip... It's not as loud as I remember it being, but still louder than I'd want for longer rides.
Oct 5th 2016, 09:09 AM   #6
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

  '13 636, '14 N1k, DR650
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooden
and considering my bike is fuel-injected, they can't pull the "install an EFI system" BS on me.
An "EFI System" is a Power Commander, Bazzaz, etc. Basically what he's saying is that you bought a "racing" exhaust and are using it for street purposes. If your bike isn't tuned and used like a race bike, unplanned things are going to happen.

The silencers are typically just so you can use your exhaust at sound limited tracks (like PIR), without having to swap to a diff exhaust. They aren't really designed to be used 100% of the time.

Pump gas runs the bike leaner and hotter than race gas. Most all racing systems aren't designed to run on pump gas.
Attached Thumbnails
Two Brothers exhausts + power tip (baffle/suppressor)-20160807_112736.jpg  
Oct 5th 2016, 09:49 AM   #7
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andenthal
An "EFI System" is a Power Commander, Bazzaz, etc.
Not sure what your point is here - the Street Triple is EFI stock, the addition of an aftermarket ECU is irrelevant. As mentioned, someone on kawi-forums.com with a ZX-6R was told to install an EFI system - presumably he was told this because he was on a carbureted bike (2002 and earlier for ZX-6Rs, AFAIK).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andenthal
If your bike isn't tuned and used like a race bike, unplanned things are going to happen.
Are you really trying to say that if I use a race exhaust, I'm bound to run into problems by not running it like a race bike? The bike is tuned and I'm not running it anywhere near as hard as someone would at a track. Before Nels worked his magic, the bike was running fine as evidenced by the below dyno chart (note the A/F ratio running rich). There's no way in hell I'm creating as much heat on the street as a race day would. Of course, a dyno run is a different story than the street, but 20 minutes of dyno versus a whole track/race day? Sure, no wind in the dyno room, but the engine isn't being put through the wringer in the same way at all.



I simply don't buy that an object meant to be inserted into an exhaust for RACE BIKES can't handle the heat of street riding or a dyno run. If it's going to melt that easily, plaster it ALL over the packaging so people know to remove it when necessary. There is literally nothing on their website or packaging that suggests the P1X shouldn't be used in particular situations.
Oct 5th 2016, 10:42 AM   #8
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

  '13 636, '14 N1k, DR650
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooden
Not sure what your point is here - the Street Triple is EFI stock, the addition of an aftermarket ECU is irrelevant.
If you're getting hung op on those 3 letters, use "fuel controller", or just "an ECU flash". Basically the idea is that you're bypassing the OEM fuel mapping in some way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooden
Are you really trying to say that if I use a race exhaust, I'm bound to run into problems by not running it like a race bike?
Basically....yes. It's not really that hard to believe is it?

Things are designed for a purpose. Using it in a similar-but-not-quite manner will cause it to wear less than optimally.

Racing slicks have WAY more grip than say a Q3. Try putting slicks on your Street Triple and ride around town, let me know how that goes for you. They'll wear like shit, and cold tear all over the place.

Let me know how those ceramic brakes do in the PNW winter.

I don't know why you think the powertrain would be any different. Just because you think you're not running it as "hard" as something else - doesn't mean you're doing it any justice. Apparently, whatever conditions you were running it were not even close to ideal (hot/cold/lean/rich/whatevs) - and it wore out too quickly.

Different parts for different purposes.
Oct 5th 2016, 11:15 AM   #9
 Squidly's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bothell

A striples stock ecu can be mapped for a slip-on by Triumph. Wooden's bike isn't set up wrong, the baffle is just not durable.

These powertips are designed to be put on a "race only" canister but TwoBros knows most of their customers have street bikes. The baffle design is flawed and melts easily under WOT for prolonged periods no matter what the map is.

Wood, just keep emailing twobros. Insist on a p1x and they'll send one.
Oct 5th 2016, 11:39 AM   #10
 Josh's Avatar
 
  Jul 2016
  The Couv

Pretty lame it melts
Oct 5th 2016, 11:53 AM   #11
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
Yes, I do find it hard to believe. I had a different race exhaust (SC Project GP M2) on my bike before the TBR, also with a baffle, and that baffle survived nearly all the same conditions for more than twice as long. I still have the old baffle, and it still looks exactly like it did the day I installed it, other than all the carbon built up on it. This tells me that, relative to the SC Project baffle, TBR P1X baffle is of inferior quality.

Is that really all that surprising to me? No, not particularly. The SC Project exhaust was clearly made to higher standards - put the two next to each other and the TBR carbon is lower quality, as are the welds - so its no stretch of the imagination to apply that same reasoning to the baffle. The SC Project is 25% more expensive ($525ish vs $430ish), so some quality degradation is to be expected, but not "metal parts melting" level shoddiness.
Oct 5th 2016, 11:54 AM   #12
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
A striples stock ecu can be mapped for a slip-on by Triumph. Wooden's bike isn't set up wrong, the baffle is just not durable.
And it was - I had the Arrow map installed on the bike by Cascade Moto Classics shortly after installing my first race exhaust last year.
Oct 6th 2016, 11:54 AM   #13
 wooden's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  PDX

  '14 St3R, '05 DR650
New P1X is on the way to me, free of charge. Thanks TBR! That's some good customer service.
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