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Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions

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  • 3 Post By Sentinel
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Jan 22nd 2019, 08:18 AM   #1
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2013 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Harlequin
Non-Ethanol Fuel Test

Excellent video.

Note the blue flame on the Non-ethanol fuel at low rpm. seems - better.

Bottom line - except for moisture affinity there seems to be only a slight improvement in efficiency with ethanol-free fuel.

However, since we can't easily get non-e fuel when just riding around the state, I think it is important to grok that normal fuel is not obviously "bad" for the motor or performance/efficiency.

To me, probably not worth worrying about. Just gonna get gas station gas and feel just fine about it.


Edited by Sentinel on Jan 22nd 2019 at 08:24 AM
Jan 22nd 2019, 09:03 AM   #2
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
To me, probably not worth worrying about. Just gonna get gas station gas and feel just fine about it.
I never stop riding but how long it takes me to use up a tank corresponds fairly well with how soggy the season is. Fuel sitting in the tank longer in 100% humidity means I go out of my way to get ethanol-free. This is essentially why it's mostly available at marinas and in agricultural areas: boat and farm equipment owners have the same issues and don't need the hassle of "winterizing" for arbitrary periods at arbitrary times of year just because of the presence of this less-stable, hygroscopic, energy-reducing crap.

When I'm riding all the time, I just stop at the most convenient (top tier, non-gouging) station.

Aside: a good reason to have a gas card for the chains you use is risk of skimmers. They're in the business of stealing and brokering credit and debit card numbers. Pretty sure they throw out the gas card numbers they get.
Jan 22nd 2019, 09:29 AM   #3
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

(As for supporting the environment, I'm all in favor of biofuels provided they don't actually make matters worse, to say nothing of squandering dwindling agricultural resources. Here's a good summary of what's wrong with using corn ethanol, and a shallow discussion of alternatives, from that well known hippie rag Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#7417891067d3)
Jan 22nd 2019, 11:58 AM   #4
 Rustydust's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Emmett Idaho

  2010 Honda Goldwing, 2007 Suzuki Burgman 650, 2005 Kawasaki KLR 650, 1995 Honda PC800
Over the years I have run all kinds of gas in my motorcycles. In the early days it was easy to stay corn free as there was not any anyway. All good old leaded gas. If you wanted unleaded gas you had to buy what was then called "white gas". But for decades now all stuff is lead free and most of has some corn in it. Now then- in the last 10 years or so I have run no corn and up to 10% corn in my bikes and I cannot tell any difference in how they run. Granted all of them are simple bikes that dont make a lot power per CC, but with all four of my bikes I have gotten the best mileage when using the 10% corn mixture. I don't know why but that's a fact. I would think the opposite to be more true but it's not.

Just thought I would share that. I am not on here that much but thought maybe someone would be interested in this.
Jan 22nd 2019, 12:37 PM   #5
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
It used to be the case that it used more energy to create ethanol than the energy it would expend by burning.

Adding to this insanity was that we taxpayers were the ones paying corn farmers big subsidies to grow their corn not only for ethanol, but for grain for livestock and for the processed food industry, products leading directly to obesity and our major chronic diseases. Plus it does serious damage to the environment growing uncessesary commodities and food markets were inflated with the artificial corn production subsidized by us.

All for an inferior fuel.

I doubt much has changed. On par for the USA.
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Jan 22nd 2019, 02:06 PM   #6
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
I prefer to drink it!
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Jan 22nd 2019, 02:44 PM   #7
 Brassneck's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Seattle, WA

  '79 XS650; '01 FZ1
Personally, I ride with E-Free fuel when I can get it, but for normal spring, summer, fall riding, I typically use standard 10% E added 92 pump gas. It's not too much of an issue as I burn through it fairly quickly. However, as the winter season approaches, I attempt to get through my tanks and fill up with E-Free fuel for storage. Additionally, I never use E-added fuel in any of my race bikes, boat, vintage VW nor small engines (chainsaw/generator, etc). Those don't get used nearly as often and sit for longer stretches... and I've literally seen Ethonal destroy the rubber bits throughout the fuel system. Sucks to have to replace it...been there/done that.
Jan 22nd 2019, 07:06 PM   #8
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
Cool XS650 Brassneck

I have one car that gets worse MPG with E10 and one that does better, that one is supposed to be a "flex fuel" car. I have read that in a non flex fuel car, the O2 sensor will tell the ECU the car is running lean and add more fuel from measuring the increased O2 content in the ethanol fuel. Eflexfuel.com sells a retrofit that will supposedly adapt a car to be flex fuel, even with E85.


If you have a Triumph or Ducati with a plastic tank ethanol may be a valid concern. This web site says that a determination of whether or not ethanol is responsible for the distortion of plastic tanks hasn'y been made, but a quick search of Triumph forums will show many members with issues getting their tanks back on their bikes after servicing them, especially if the bike sat for any length of time with E10.
Deformed Motorcycle Fuel Tanks
Jan 22nd 2019, 09:24 PM   #9
 
  Jan 2016
  Gig Harbor

  BMW F650GS / BMW R12R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
Cool XS650 Brassneck

I have one car that gets worse MPG with E10 and one that does better, that one is supposed to be a "flex fuel" car. I have read that in a non flex fuel car, the O2 sensor will tell the ECU the car is running lean and add more fuel from measuring the increased O2 content in the ethanol fuel. Eflexfuel.com sells a retrofit that will supposedly adapt a car to be flex fuel, even with E85.
E10 gasoline contains less energy than "clear" (100% petroleum) gasoline. Ethanol has a heat of combustion of just under 13,000 BTU/lb. Gasoline is about 20,000 BTU/lb. When you run the math, E10 contains about 4% less energy than clear gas.

Get ready for things to get worse. To keep the corn farmers happy in Iowa (by meeting the mandate of the Renewable Fuel Standard) the EPA may start to require more ethanol to be blended into gasoline. Next stop, E15.
Jan 22nd 2019, 10:02 PM   #10
 Brassneck's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Seattle, WA

  '79 XS650; '01 FZ1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash Riprock
Cool XS650 Brassneck
Deformed Motorcycle Fuel Tanks
Thanks!
Jan 23rd 2019, 05:52 AM   #11
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2013 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Harlequin
agree that Archer Daniels Midland. probably the only "corn farmer" in Iowa that matters, is the reason behind E10/E15 gas.

But the environmental bullshit behind ethanol in gas is a lie.

this is all and only about ADM taking our money via the government, using the law as a business tool.

go figure.

"Capitalism - the FUCK YOU we are used to."
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Jan 24th 2019, 07:19 PM   #12
 
  Jan 2016
  Gig Harbor

  BMW F650GS / BMW R12R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel

But the environmental bullshit behind ethanol in gas is a lie.
Many environmental groups have made the case for years that corn ethanol is not a sustainable fuel, nor one that results in lower greenhouse gas emissions. It's detrimental on both fronts. The mandate to blend it as a gasoline component was strictly a political decision to benefit corn growers. For the last four or five presidential election cycles it's been close to impossible for any candidate to make it through the Iowa caucuses without supporting the requirement to put corn ethanol into gasoline.
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