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Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions

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  • 1 Post By ZXtasy
  • 1 Post By curve addict
  • 2 Post By Pavement Tested
  • 1 Post By Pavement Tested
  • 1 Post By curve addict
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Jun 3rd 2020, 10:27 PM   #1
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S, Suzuki VStrom 650, Yamaha Radian, MZ 125SM
Kawasaki Z650 engine rebuild

I have an opportunity to buy a 2017 Z650 with 4500 miles with a lower end knock. Sounds like it needs an engine rebuild. $2300 I'm on the fence on whether or not I should tackle this. This would most likely be a rebuild and eventually sell, bike and not a long term keeper. Do any of you have any experience with rebuilding these engines and can give me pointers? Worth it or not?

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Jun 4th 2020, 04:51 AM   #2
 ZXtasy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Moses Lake, WA

  2013 Kawasaki Concours C-14, 2005 ZX-10R Kawasaki (Nekkid), '99 Yamaha TW-200
Not really 'experience' other than having a dozen Kawis over the years and ridden them hard and put away wet and a bottom end failure seems extremely rare. They are bullet proof..usually, but severe abuse/lack of maintenance/bad day at the factory....

Source a factory manual and I say go for it, could be fun and a learning experience and 2300 is cheaper than going to MMI. Could be something like bad detonation from the wrong fuel, or other simple things and then bam! A new 650 track rat is yours,
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Jun 4th 2020, 08:07 AM   #3
 curve addict's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Des Moines, WA

  ...1987 Yamaha FZR1000...
That engine uses nikasil lining in the cylinders, rather than steel sleeves. Generally the lining holds up very well, but makes boring/sleeving very difficult to do.

If you have access to a scope, take a look inside the combustion chambers and look for cylinder wall damage. If there is any; you should probably write it off. If the cylinder walls look good, I'd say go for it.

Edit: I have not taken one of these particular engines apart, but I've worked on a number of motorcycle engines over the years.
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Edited by curve addict on Jun 4th 2020 at 08:30 AM
Jun 4th 2020, 10:53 AM   #4
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seabeck

  '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750, '16 KTM 690 Duke
I believe, by the looks of it, that's the same 650 twin that's in a ton of Kawis for the last 15+ years. That engine is incredibly easy to rebuild. I took on a Ninja 650R a few years back that had thrown the chain and damaged both of the engine case halves and needed some other things to get it back to being a nice bike.

I sourced a case on eBay and replaced just about every gasket on the engine while swapping the internals over. I don't remember what I spent on the engine parts but I was about $1200 into the whole bike which included a used swing arm and powdercoating, chain/sprocket kit, used OEM plastics and some other bits and bobs. I sold it for $2500 after taking it as payment for servicing another bike. I had most tools I needed and only had to buy a clutch basket holder. One of the nicest things i found is that the transmission is a cartridge type and comes out as 1 unit. Made that part very east.

What I did not quantify is the time I spent working on it. I used it as a learning experience since it was my first full motorcycle engine rebuild so money wasnt the driving factor. Had I calculated it I probably would have had more into that particular bike than it was really worth.

If you're not worried about time spent and feel you'll get your dollars back plus a few, I think that's a good engine to get experience with.
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Jun 4th 2020, 12:34 PM   #5
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S, Suzuki VStrom 650, Yamaha Radian, MZ 125SM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curve addict
That engine uses nikasil lining in the cylinders, rather than steel sleeves. Generally the lining holds up very well, but makes boring/sleeving very difficult to do.

If you have access to a scope, take a look inside the combustion chambers and look for cylinder wall damage. If there is any; you should probably write it off. If the cylinder walls look good, I'd say go for it.

Edit: I have not taken one of these particular engines apart, but I've worked on a number of motorcycle engines over the years.
I've heard it does have damage to the walls of one of the cylinders. I looked at a 700 bore kit and they're $599.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the standard Ninja engine and I'd imagine that there'd be a few out there that have been rebuilt, even with the big bore kit. I just haven't looked yet.
Jun 4th 2020, 03:05 PM   #6
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Seabeck

  '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750, '16 KTM 690 Duke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboymedic
I've heard it does have damage to the walls of one of the cylinders. I looked at a 700 bore kit and they're $599.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the standard Ninja engine and I'd imagine that there'd be a few out there that have been rebuilt, even with the big bore kit. I just haven't looked yet.
You will undoubtedly find alot of engine parts for that.

One thing I goofed up is the water pump impeller shaft oil seal. Its a cup type similar to a fork seal. It goes in the back side of the inner water pump housing plate. The manual pictures were really fuzzy and I instinctively installed it with the flat side of the seal facing me which ends up being towards the engine and is backwards. If you do this you'll leak oil out of the weep hole. I took the damn pump apart 3 times before I figured it out. I was able go flip the seal and it held. With the age of that engine you probably won't have to worry about those seals but its something to think about.
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Jun 4th 2020, 03:27 PM   #7
 curve addict's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Des Moines, WA

  ...1987 Yamaha FZR1000...
^^

Yep.

I'm guessing that you can find some interesting goodies for that engine; I haven't looked yet, either. It's my understanding that the engine is quite popular with flat track racers.

I just thought that you were trying to fix it for resale and $600 kit, plus install time/money, may not earn you an additional $600+ when you sell it.
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Jun 5th 2020, 07:25 AM   #8
 McRider's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Woodland, WA

This is basically the same engine that has been used in a bunch of different models since 2006. I would expect you could find a low mileage one from a wreck on Ebay for less than it costs to rebuild one.
Jun 5th 2020, 12:35 PM   #9
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S, Suzuki VStrom 650, Yamaha Radian, MZ 125SM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRider
This is basically the same engine that has been used in a bunch of different models since 2006. I would expect you could find a low mileage one from a wreck on Ebay for less than it costs to rebuild one.
Yes, but how can I be sure I'm getting something that runs well without first being able to hear it run in a bike?
Jun 5th 2020, 12:44 PM   #10
 TimberMoto's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Salem, Oregon

  Supermoto Dreaming...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboymedic
Yes, but how can I be sure I'm getting something that runs well without first being able to hear it run in a bike?
Sometimes sellers will post a video of it running before they pulled it from the bike. Other than that it may be a crapshoot. You'd have to rely on the seller's reputation.
Jun 5th 2020, 01:05 PM   #11
 Dash Riprock's Avatar
 
  Apr 2018
  Tri-cities

  Yamaha 650
Cool bike and sounds like a good winter project if you have the time, if not I'm pretty sure Copart will let you hear something run, and there are no shortage of dropped totaled bikes with cosmetic damage. I would have never considered it before tip over switches, but I know guys who have done it with success these days.
Jun 6th 2020, 07:16 PM   #12
 McRider's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Woodland, WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboymedic
Yes, but how can I be sure I'm getting something that runs well without first being able to hear it run in a bike?
If it's a relatively low mileage crashed bike, it should be good. It's not like it stopped running because of engine failure.
Jun 9th 2020, 02:06 PM   #13
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S, Suzuki VStrom 650, Yamaha Radian, MZ 125SM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRider
If it's a relatively low mileage crashed bike, it should be good. It's not like it stopped running because of engine failure.
Actually that's exactly what happened. Something happened with the engine even though all the work/oil changes were done by Beaverton Honda where he bought it. Owner states that it happened a month after the warranty ended and Beaverton Honda and big K said FU. He had an independant mechanic look at it and said the bore is toast. I'm tempted but I've got too many projects and it's not really a bike I'd love to have at the price+work needed. It's a meh bike for me and ever since I bought into Euro bikes, newer Japanese bikes don't do anything for me simply because of the styling.
Jun 11th 2020, 11:41 AM   #14
 Parilla125's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  SeaTac

Wow! With rev limiters on most all bikes now you don't hear much of them granading that soon.
I recently pulled the top end on a bike I bought new (2001) to correct an oil leak and found they had reversed the top two rings from the factory, so mistakes can still happen.
Good luck on your project!
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