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Oct 26th 2017, 10:57 AM   #1
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
Grabby brakes and no-speed tipovers

I've done it once, come close a dozen times. You're in a parking lot or at a stop sign, someone surprises you and you change your mind in a no-speed steering situation, you grab a handful of brake, stop short and next thing you know the bike is throwing itself at the ground on the side the front wheel isn't pointing at.

Happened to me again yesterday, and I've got a twinge in my left hamstring today from the strain of planting my feet hard and as far forward as I could reach and restraining it just a little past the angle of no return. Arrested it but it hurt.

So any tips on not being in this situation? Train yourself to reflexively straighten the bars while braking at no speed? I can't think of anything else but any thoughts welcome.
Oct 26th 2017, 11:59 AM   #2
 Tripledij's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Custer WA

  Aprilia Tuono 1100
Oct 26th 2017, 12:03 PM   #3
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Train yourself to go easy on the front brake or use the rear brake which is more controllable at low speed slides.

I pull my bike into my garage using a ramp to get over the stoop. I have to remind myself to apply the front brake delicately or else it will skid the front tire and lowside on the smooth concrete floor.

And when I am on any potentially slippery surface, I cover my rear brake to be ready to use it rather than only my front brake as I do most of the time.
Oct 26th 2017, 12:38 PM   #4
 Mudslinger's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Seabeck

  Africa Twin
I've done it twice this past year. My foot is on the ground I start to go then changed my mind.(car came flying around the corner) so I grab the front break as the quickest way to stop and inevitably tip it over. Wish I had a simple answer but I suspect it comes down to being more careful and attentive to your surroundings.
Oct 26th 2017, 01:14 PM   #5
 Mudslinger's Avatar
 
  Sep 2016
  Seabeck

  Africa Twin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripledij
I wouldn't like to have to pick up that monster after a tip over.
Oct 26th 2017, 02:06 PM   #6
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Train yourself to go easy on the front brake or use the rear brake which is more controllable at low speed slides.
Yeah, and maybe just keep reminding yourself at very low speeds of the possible need to brake so you're not surprised and grabby when it happens. I never forget to be bolt upright when crossing light rail tracks and steel plates, and if I can remember that I can remember this.
Oct 26th 2017, 05:05 PM   #7
 Sentinel's Avatar
 
  Jun 2016
  Poor Tortured

  2015 Kawasaki Concours 14 - The Origame Sea-Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
...apply the front brake delicately or else it will skid the front tire and lowside on the smooth concrete floor.
ABS don't fix that?
Oct 26th 2017, 06:04 PM   #8
 Transported's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  2006 FZ1, 1999 R1
Naww. I got one o' them bikes that requires skill. ��
Oct 27th 2017, 04:56 AM   #9
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslinger
I've done it twice this past year. My foot is on the ground I start to go then changed my mind.(car came flying around the corner) so I grab the front break as the quickest way to stop and inevitably tip it over. Wish I had a simple answer but I suspect it comes down to being more careful and attentive to your surroundings.
And, as silly as it may seem, practice.
Oct 27th 2017, 08:24 AM   #10
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported
Naww. I got one o' them bikes that requires skill. ��
ABS is pretty much out of the picture when you're nudging it around at 1mph. It can't tell whether the bike is really in motion, only if the wheel is turning, so it does a lot of inferring about changes in rotation speed to decide whether to let the brake lock up. Jockeying it around on a floor looks like no speed at all, like maybe you're just trying to hold it on a hill at a traffic light, so it will go ahead and let you clamp in that situation.

That's why you still get faw down go boom in parking lots even on bikes that have it.
Oct 27th 2017, 11:15 AM   #11
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

  2015 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R, 2014 Kawasaki Ninja EX300 CRF250x, CRF150RB. XR100
Use one or two fingers on the front brake. Don't listen to MSF when they train to cover the clutch and brake. You will have much better control at slow speeds.
Oct 27th 2017, 08:32 PM   #12
 That One Guy's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

Generally speaking I don't use the front brake at low speed. Try training yourself to use the rear break (about the only time you need the rearbrake on a street bike with the exception of holding the bike at a red light), it's generally a lot more forgiving.
Hachi likes this.
Oct 28th 2017, 06:17 AM   #13
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheel-Will
Use one or two fingers on the front brake. Don't listen to MSF when they train to cover the clutch and brake. You will have much better control at slow speeds.
Covering the clutch as a standard practice is only coached for novice students while they are still figuring out the BASICS of motorcycle operation. Also, at low speeds front brake usage can be disastrous, as indicated by the origin of this thread. Dragging the rear brake in slow speed operations is a valuable tool to stabilize the suspension and buffer throttle and clutch glitches. If the OP had been dragging the brake and merely pulled in the clutch when he had the change of heart this thread most likely would not have happened.

The MSF instructor in me wishes to thank him for sacrificing his body and bike so that we could enjoy this educational little conversation.
Oct 28th 2017, 09:03 AM   #14
 WarpShatner7's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Stumpy Puddleton

  R1200ST, CB350
For no-speed operations like kicking it into a parking space or something, the boots are usually on the ground, so the rear brake isn't available for sudden surprises. I think the key is just to bump your situational awareness -- i.e. keep in mind that bad things can happen even while you're just jockeying it around. Remembering to have a light touch if you have to brake when something startles you will be easier if you're actually taking into account that something might startle you. In other words don't stop minding your surroundings and thinking ahead just because you're not riding on the road.

I've only let it get all the way to the pavement this way once; I was turning left into a driveway from a stopped condition, someone I hadn't spotted pulled out from curbside right in front of where I was going as I started to move. Somewhat ironically if I were a foot-dragger I could probably have caught it but I get on the pegs as soon as I'm moving. Ms. Blue Civic pulls right in front of me as I'm starting to move while in a faint lean left and bam I'm on the brake lever and down it goes on the left side. On every other occasion I've caught it before it got past the point of no return, but it can be a strain.
Oct 28th 2017, 11:19 AM   #15
 Texasl's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Northeast Olalla

  07 Guzzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpShatner7
For no-speed operations like kicking it into a parking space or something, the boots are usually on the ground, so the rear brake isn't available for sudden surprises. I think the key is just to bump your situational awareness -- i.e. keep in mind that bad things can happen even while you're just jockeying it around. Remembering to have a light touch if you have to brake when something startles you will be easier if you're actually taking into account that something might startle you. In other words don't stop minding your surroundings and thinking ahead just because you're not riding on the road.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
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