Instagram     

Go Back   PNW Moto > PNW Moto > Mechanical and Technical

Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions

Like Tree8Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Feb 25th 2016, 10:32 AM   #16
 ltlpagan's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Vancouver WA

  2010 Ducati Monster 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by riceman
also, did you bleed the hydraulic clutch system per manufacturer recommendations? did you use brand-new fluid?

air bubbles and/or old hydroscopic fluids can be bad for performance.
This is what I'm going to start with first. I've bled the line a million times but it sounds like the next step is to bleed the master cylinder.
Feb 25th 2016, 10:41 AM   #17
 riceman's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Pasco, WA

  2001 1150GS
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltlpagan
This is what I'm going to start with first. I've bled the line a million times but it sounds like the next step is to bleed the master cylinder.
most of my experience is with cars, so i don't have much to offer as far as bike specific knowledge goes. but i do know that, with VERY rare exception, you don't need to bench bleed the master cylinder if it wasn't replaced. generally speaking you can put a new line on and then run fresh fluid through it. Just make sure that the fresh fluid is the proper type, that you get ALL of the old fluid out and that you go through the proper sequencing when you bleed the system.

I assume that a clutch system is a clutch system is a clutch system and they all be bled in the same manner, but that's not always the case. check your manual. clutch systems don't necessarily bleed just like brake systems either (pump the pedal, crack the bleeder, tighten bleeder, release pedal, repeat). I ended up getting a vacuum pump and running nearly a whole container of fluid through my clutch system in my car (the hose is only 18" long) just to be safe. the fluid is only a couple bucks. cheap peace of mind, IMO.

keep us posted!
Feb 25th 2016, 10:52 AM   #18
 jedijesus's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  02 R1
Sounds like a clutch friction plate issue not a hydraulic issue. Hydraulic issues are repeatable and if you don't have leaking fluid anywhere that's a good sign its something else.

The higher revs indicate slippage, which is a plate issue. Sounds like you need a clutch pack lady.

And my bike will be running eventually. shut up.
Feb 25th 2016, 12:44 PM   #19
 equinity's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Puyallup

  Yamaha FZ1, Aprilia RSV4 R
In my experience, 5th gen vfr only bike with hydraulic clutch, the clutch is bled just like your front brakes.

With that being said I'm inclined to agree with Jedi here, this is an actual clutch issue.

How do I come to this conclusion? I'm glad you asked. The default position for the clutch is engaged, putting pressure against the drive and turning. When you pull the lever, it disengages. This works against the springs, all of which have a spring constant, k. Worn springs have a k lower than nominal, heat only makes this worse. The weaker the springs the less the clutch is actually engaged and will slip. As they cool the springs get harder and engage the clutch and off you go.

My opinion is that the clutch is probably in need of a refresh. New pressure and friction plates and new springs. As long as your basket is in good shape you'll be fine. And don't forget the new cover gasket.
Feb 25th 2016, 01:01 PM   #20
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltlpagan
I've bled the line a million times but not the master cylinder. How do I do that separate from the line?
I've never done the clutch cylinder. Having said that I've done a master cylinder on an automobile and you basically just put it in the vice and direct the outlet line back into the reservoir until you eliminate all the bubbles. This makes sure that there is no air in the nooks and crannys of the master cylinder. That's what you want to do with the clutch cylinder. If I were doing it I would chock it up into a vice (or have your son hold it for you) as you take the outlet line and and direct the fluid flow back into the little reservoir. Be careful to not press too hard and rapidly on the lever as you don't want the fluid to shoot all over. I think you'll probably just need everyday mineral oil unless Ducati calls for something else. The reservoir lid probably states what's required right on it. Otherwise Google is your friend. Once you're done you can hook everything back up and see if you still have your issue. If so, sounds like a new clutch plates are in your future. I've heard Barnett makes good/cheap plates for Husqvarna, they might also have them for Ducati.
Good luck.
Feb 25th 2016, 01:24 PM   #21
 dragracer1951's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Bremerton

  07 XB12 Buell Lightning
If when you pull the lever in, the clutch does not disengage, check your fluid in the system. It is very likely that you need to change the fluid. A little water in there will fuxor it all up.
This is not a mechanical problem as it has manifested itself over time.
You could need seals in either the master cyl or the slave cyl.
If the bike is a few years old and you have never had this done...I'd go ahead and rebuild both. It's cheap
Redkat600 likes this.
Feb 25th 2016, 01:39 PM   #22
 FeralRdr's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Adjacent to the Hobbit Garage

^^^^What they said^^^^^

Oh, one other thing. If the clutch isn't slipping in top gear, then the clutch is probably sound. If the fiber discs or steels were worn, top gear is where you would encounter slippage first: not first gear.

I draw your attention to the original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltlpagan
...
"When I went to go it was like it was stuck in neutral. I got it to move a bit but it was revving more than normal to make that happen. Once it got going though everything was fine the rest of the day.... Once again when it got moving it runs fine..."
Feb 25th 2016, 01:54 PM   #23
 equinity's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Puyallup

  Yamaha FZ1, Aprilia RSV4 R
+1 on starting with changing the oil.

What I'm confused about though is that when it's hot, the clutch doesn't engage. Not that it doesn't disengage. If the clutch release system was leaking, wouldn't it refuse to disengage?

The more that I think about it though it sounds like bad oil.
Feb 25th 2016, 03:44 PM   #24
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

  '13 636, '14 N1k, DR650
What viscosity of oil are you using?

CJ had a similar problem with her bike (plus a couple bonus issues), and found out that she had changed the oil for a trip down to Cali in the summer time, and when fall/winter came around the oil wasn't right for Portland winter temps.

Italian mistresses are just picky enough that the difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 will be VERY noticeable (10x more than a Japanese bike). Hannah (formerly of Motocorsa) said that the lighter bikes should always use the higher viscosity oils. IIRC, 10W-30 was the magic number for her 620.

There was also a running joke in our household that if the Monster sat for more than 30 days, we would need to change all the fluids before riding it again.
Feb 25th 2016, 03:51 PM   #25
 jedijesus's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Portland

  02 R1
Bench bleeding the master is easy enough in place, just turn the handle bars so the reservoir is level. Might have to tilt the bike a little but no big deal.

Vacuum bleeders are a life saver, just crack the line and make sure the reservoir is full.

Without being there and diagnosing it properly this is all conjecture, have someone come over and look at it.
Feb 25th 2016, 03:57 PM   #26
 Flyboymedic's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Hazel Dell, Wa

  Honda VFR800, Husqvarna TE 610, Ducati Hypermotard 1100S
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andenthal
What viscosity of oil are you using?
Italian mistresses are just picky enough that the difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 will be VERY noticeable (10x more than a Japanese bike). Hannah (formerly of Motocorsa) said that the lighter bikes should always use the higher viscosity oils. IIRC, 10W-30 was the magic number for her 620.
That's interesting to hear as I would almost entirely dismiss oil being the sole culprit. However, I've never had a Ducati until recently and haven't ridden it enough to determine oil being any sort of shifting issue or otherwise. My Honda doesn't care one way or another and my Husqvarna I can barely tell. I still don't think that the oil is her issue at all, but it certainly won't hurt to change it if it's got some miles on it.
Feb 25th 2016, 06:36 PM   #27
 ltlpagan's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Vancouver WA

  2010 Ducati Monster 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andenthal
What viscosity of oil are you using?
I use Valvoline 20W-50 for Vtwins
Feb 25th 2016, 06:38 PM   #28
 ltlpagan's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Vancouver WA

  2010 Ducati Monster 696
Sounds like the consensus is to replace the fluids in the line and master cylinder, with an oil change to boot. I will start there and report back. Thanks for all the ideas
Feb 25th 2016, 07:28 PM   #29
 
  Jan 2016
  Beaverton

  '13 636, '14 N1k, DR650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboymedic
That's interesting to hear as I would almost entirely dismiss oil being the sole culprit. However, I've never had a Ducati until recently and haven't ridden it enough to determine oil being any sort of shifting issue or otherwise. My Honda doesn't care one way or another and my Husqvarna I can barely tell.
Like I said...Italian broads....
IIRC, it was the end of the life of that particular oil (close to 3k miles). It manifested itself in weird ways, none of which typically make you think oil as the first bet.

I put chocolate syrup in the ninja one time, couldn't tell a difference.

Sent via SM-N910T
ThrottleStop likes this.
Feb 25th 2016, 07:40 PM   #30
 Zoomie's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Kirkland

Make sure your clutch lever is releasing the master cylinder piston completely.
Ducati has an adjustable rod between the lever bushing and the master cylinder piston,
If extended too far the check valve in the master will not release, holding pressure on the fluid in the line and slave cylinder.
Add heat, the fluid expands, extending your clutch slave, causing slippage.
AMHIK
Reply

  PNW Moto > PNW Moto > Mechanical and Technical

Tags
clutch, issue



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting issue 600bandit Mechanical and Technical 13 Jun 2nd 2016 10:05 AM
Clutch Tombraider2 Mechanical and Technical 6 Feb 17th 2016 05:51 PM
KTM 990 Adventure Clutch issue CodeBlue Mechanical and Technical 3 Jan 22nd 2016 04:50 PM




Copyright © 2018 PNW Moto. All rights reserved.