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Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions

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  • 3 Post By curve addict
  • 2 Post By Pavement Tested
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Sep 24th 2017, 12:59 AM   #1
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bremerton

  '12 Concours14, '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750
Exclamation Charging system testing assistance needed

I just want to make sure I'm not going crazy or doing something wrong.

Testing the charging system on an 08 R1.

1 - charged battery, measured at 13 VDC +/- .1 VDC resting, no indications of draw. Good enough to start the bike and conduct base line and further testing.

2 - test R/R output, bike running, hi beam on, RPM @ 5000, both at battery terminals and at the R/R itself with connector unplugged, no change in voltage. Reading ~12.5 VDC and slowly dropping at battery, 0 VDC @ R/R. Indicates bad R/R, but wait! There's more!

3 - test continuity of red/black wires from R/R to battery, 0 ohms. Good to go.

4 - test stator continuity, wires 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 bike off, measure .6 ohms (on 200 scale) @ ~68-70 deg F. Manual says spec is .14-.18 ohms, the 0 point on my meter (leads connected together) is .4 ohms so it looks like I'm getting .2 ohms. My meter doesn't go any lower so I can't be sure and don't think that .02 ohms is much to fuss with but still out of spec. Don't know if my meter is rounding up because on the 2000 ohm scale it reads 1 and 20k scale it reads 0.

5 - stator ground test, wires 1-GND, 2-GND, 3-GND all open or infinate. Good to go.

6 - A/C output of stator, bike running, stator unplugged, test wires 1-2, 2-3, 1-3 on AC 200V scale w/ engine @ 5000 RPM. Reads 0 VAC on all test points from idle to 5K and beyond. Should be reading 60-80 VAC. I checked it multiple times and even removed the wires from the connector shell to ensure I had a good connection. Nothing looks burnt or discolored.

This is telling me the stator is bad and the R/R is still indeterminate until i can get voltage to it. Is this correct? Am I missing something or doing something wrong?

I'm thrown off because I feel like the stator should be putting out something on at least one phase but there's nothing else to check from the plug to the stator without removing the cover.

I don't think these things are co-related but feel it's worth a mention. This electrical stuff onset with a check engine light while riding which I attribute to too low of a battery voltage (no other warning lights) and a dead battery and happened very shortly after and oil change and valve adjustment. The bike had not been on a battery tender for some time prior to this but had been getting ridden reasonably frequently. It had not been ridden for at least a week.
Sep 24th 2017, 08:54 AM   #2
 curve addict's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Auburn, WA

  ...1987 Yamaha FZR1000...
Based on the information that you posted; The culprit appears to be the stator.

Now for the rest of the story:

The last time that I saw similar readings; the stator was fine. The true culprit was the magnets on the rotor. The glue had failed and all of the magnets stuck to the stator; somehow without busting a bunch of stuff in the process.

Maybe you'll find something similar when you remove the cover. Good luck.
galenernest, Arcane and Greg like this.
Sep 24th 2017, 10:14 AM   #3
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Check that your meter is actually working on the AC setting. Most of them get pretty flaky at higher frequencies, i.e., as the revs go up. Unfortunately my oscope is at the office or we could have a looksee with that.

If you have a spare RR you could sub it in and see what happens. I think I have a good one from my Ape you can borrow (I put in a Shindengen). It has connectors chopped off and you will need clip leads to hook it up temporarily, but it should at least let you know if any AC is getting out of the stator, or if the issue is the RR.

Edited by DocB on Sep 24th 2017 at 10:26 AM
Sep 24th 2017, 07:39 PM   #4
 Wrench's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  West Richland, WA

I'm betting its just the reg/rec. The failure rate of the stator/rotor assemblies these days is extremely low, unless something induced physical damage to one of them (like the magnets falling apart, probably due to some kind of impact or prolonged vibration).
Sep 24th 2017, 08:48 PM   #5
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bremerton

  '12 Concours14, '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB
Check that your meter is actually working on the AC setting.
Source checked my multimeter with a 120 outlet and reads accurately. I have no other way to check it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrench
I'm betting its just the reg/rec. The failure rate of the stator/rotor assemblies these days is extremely low, unless something induced physical damage to one of them (like the magnets falling apart, probably due to some kind of impact or prolonged vibration).
A bad R/R doesn't help explain a complete lack of voltage of any kind from the stator.
Sep 24th 2017, 09:25 PM   #6
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
OK, so meter is working for sure. It would probably give some sort of erratic reading at lower rpm if the stator is working OK. So the stator may well be dead. Short of throwing a scope on it I don't know that you can draw that conclusion for certain, but it seems likely. Then, of course, the question is why? You might want to check for a dead short across the connections of the RR to be sure it won't cause any problems if you replace only the stator. I'm pretty inclined to replace the RR on any bike I buy, however the R1 RR is the one I usually sub in...
Sep 26th 2017, 07:38 PM   #7
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bremerton

  '12 Concours14, '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750
Well, I think I found the problem...

Charging system testing assistance needed-20170926_201835.jpg

Charging system testing assistance needed-20170926_201938.jpg

Charging system testing assistance needed-20170926_202002.jpg

Curve Addict is the winner!

Apparently this is a class problem and Yamaha has made parts that solve the problem but didn't do a recall.

To fix this right using OEM parts and $100+/hr shop labor it would probably cost in the neighborhood of $1500.
galenernest and Greg like this.

Edited by Pavement Tested on Sep 26th 2017 at 07:40 PM
Sep 26th 2017, 09:19 PM   #8
 cgt1229's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Bellingham

  Suzuki
Wow! Didn't think failures like that were found on newer machinery, eventhough it's almost 10 years old, it's modern to me.

Unfortunate, but at least it was diagnosed on your time.

By "class" to you mean 08 R1's or other years too?
Sep 26th 2017, 09:44 PM   #9
 Pavement Tested's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Bremerton

  '12 Concours14, '08 GSX1300R, '06 GSX-R 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgt1229
Wow! Didn't think failures like that were found on newer machinery, eventhough it's almost 10 years old, it's modern to me.

Unfortunate, but at least it was diagnosed on your time.

By "class" to you mean 08 R1's or other years too?
I repair bikes as a hobby for extra cash so the owner is going to have some cost but not what he'd pay a shop.

Apparently this generator assembly was installed in '04-'08 YZF-R1's and all the other FZ1 and FZ8 bikes from '06 thru '15 as indicated by searching the new OEM part # on motosport.com. What I don't know is when the redesigned parts were rolled out or what year's got them installed from the factory.

So, if you have one of these bikes, might be worth your time to inspect it. At the very least a new stator cover gasket costs about $3.00.

I'm looking at having to drop the oil pan and clean all the debris out. The worst part is that all these fragments are magnetic and who know where they all went.

If it was my bike I'd park it until winter and pull the whole engine, tear it down and clean it all out.
Sep 27th 2017, 08:35 AM   #10
 curve addict's Avatar
 
  Apr 2016
  Auburn, WA

  ...1987 Yamaha FZR1000...
Even when the news is bad, it helps to learn what the problem is. Happy to help.
Oct 2nd 2017, 04:29 PM   #11
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Yeow! Amazing that it didn't sound like a garbage disposal with a fork in it.

Sent via SAMSUNG-SM-G920A
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