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Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions

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Dec 5th 2017, 03:45 PM   #1
 MMcN49's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Small Island Surrounded by Puget Sound

  07 Buell XB12STT, (Two) 12 Suzuki DR650 SE 72BMWR75/5 KIA @ 243K
Battery Information

The Northwest Auto Show is on KVI 570, 6-8AM Saturday mornings. Next Saturday they'll have a Battery Company representative on for both hours. He'll talk and answer all call in questions concerning automotive, marine, motorcycle, power-sport and probably hybrid and battery powered cars.

For those not living around Seattle you can listen online here:
Listen | KVI AM 570
Dec 6th 2017, 08:38 AM   #2
 PeteN95's Avatar
Moderator
 
  Jan 2016
  Muklilteo, WA

  Suzuki DL1000, Honda XR650R, KTM 250 XC-W
6-8am Sat morning?! I don't think so.
Dec 6th 2017, 02:06 PM   #3
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
I just want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Are you listening?
Supercapacitors.
Dec 6th 2017, 03:51 PM   #4
 MMcN49's Avatar
 
  Jan 2016
  Small Island Surrounded by Puget Sound

  07 Buell XB12STT, (Two) 12 Suzuki DR650 SE 72BMWR75/5 KIA @ 243K
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95
6-8am Sat morning?! I don't think so.
Just putting the info out there for anyone up and puttering around, (know you need your beauty sleep).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB
I just want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Are you listening?
Supercapacitors.


Interesting. The business you're in, your electronics shop, knowledge and experience should make playing around with this stuff pretty easy.

Have you constructed a supercap power storage unit for your bike or car?
If so how did it work out?
Were you able to get a reasonable AH rating and still be able to fit it under the bikes seat?

I live about 4-miles from your shop and retired. If you have one up and running I would love to come by and see it.

CONS OF THE SUPER CAP:
1) If you made a super capacitor big enough to replace your car battery, it would likely be 10 times the size.* Super capacitors have lots of energy storage, but need to be banked in series/parallel to achieve battery-like storage.
2) super capacitors normally have very low max voltage ratings, which means that you have to be very careful not to over charge them.* As well, what are you going to do with a 2.5v capacitor?* You have to place a bunch in series to keep doubling the voltage.* However, when you add capacitors in series, you lose capacitance.* The formula for series and parallel banking will be in the final step, so if you have time, have a look =)
3) While you need not worry about shocking yourself, as super capacitors offer so little voltage, you can burn yourself if you create a direct short on a fully charged super capacitor or bank of capacitors.*
4) Super capacitors are more expensive than batteries.

The Forever Rechargeable VARIABLE Super Capacitor Battery !!!: 4 Steps
Dec 6th 2017, 04:48 PM   #5
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
I do have one I'm installing on my Bonneville racer. Not yet completely installed, but I have been able to test it and turns over the engine easily. IIRC I cranked it for three separate "starts" before it dropped too low to turn the starter over. That would be the one possible situation where it will fall short of a battery, a hard starting motor that needs several cranking sessions to fire. My bike will use gas with stock pistons and timing, so getting it to fire should not be an issue. Unlike a battery it charges up in a couple of minutes.

It is not bigger than a car battery, it's about one third to one half the size of a typical moto battery, composed of six 500F caps. Weighs maybe .5-1 pound. In fact I am having to get creative about securing it in the cavernous battery holder.

Yes, you series six 2.7V rated caps. Rather like you series six 2.2V cells in a battery.

Most supercaps use MOSFETs mounted on their circuit board to control charging across each individual cap. Batteries rely upon an external reg to avoid overcharging, and it goes across the whole battery, not each cell. And of course that same external reg will control the voltage available to the supercap. And it can sit fully discharged without sulfating and shorting out.

My supercap cost $35. The last battery I bought for my Ape was a whole bunch more than that.

That last thing about shocking yourself is kind of a non-issue. It's an energy source with up to 12VDC of potential on it and the ability to dump a shitload of current. Wait, that sounds just like a car battery. Same precautions are necessary, with no concern about hydrogen gas.

I'd be happy to show it to you when I get it together. Starting a push this month to have the bike done in time to dial it in at the drag strip this spring. So hopefully I will have it running soon.
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Edited by DocB on Dec 8th 2017 at 09:49 AM
Dec 11th 2017, 09:00 PM   #6
 DocB's Avatar
 
  Feb 2016
  Poulsbo, WA

  Aprilia RSV Mille, CB77, CB750K, CB750F
Need some distraction from a scary Craigslist debacle earlier today, so I have attached a couple pics of the supercap project. One is just the supercap with the stock CB77 battery hold down zip tied to it. The cap is light enough that I have decided to suspend it from the hold down. Ruler inserted for scale.

The other attachment is a little hard to suss out. It is the supercap hanging in the stock battery tray location. This is looking from the tail forward, where it sits under the seat just aft of the gas tank. The silver thing in the foreground is a riding mower type voltage regulator/rectifier sitting just aft of the supercap. The stock charging setup on these bikes is, um, historical. Yeah, that's it, historical. A selenium rectifier and a tapped stator winding that requires switching in an extra winding to run the headlight because there is no voltage regulator to compensate for the loading. The modern low loss R/R replacement lets one parallel the windings for best current delivery and keeps the voltage constant with or without headlight load.

Sorry about the rotated images. Will fix them and repost when I have more time
Attached Thumbnails
Battery Information-20171211_202537-1-.jpg   Battery Information-20171211_202956-1-.jpg  
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